tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post1767184076657543551..comments2024-03-28T16:55:57.201-04:00Comments on AS BEREANS DID: You Will Never Be WorthyMarthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12438486498450616814noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-26228758235176771112017-04-15T03:42:24.543-04:002017-04-15T03:42:24.543-04:00Re wine vs. grape juice...although I believe it wa...Re wine vs. grape juice...although I believe it was wine Christ used in His Passover if a brother or sister was a recovering alcoholic I wouldn't be such a bully to demand they can't drink anything, but wine on the solemn and sacred night. I mean whatever happened to Paul's advice in Romans 14:21 "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." And do you really want to enable a child of God to fall and sin?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-83764981199917212652017-04-12T10:21:07.516-04:002017-04-12T10:21:07.516-04:00The scandal of grace. Such an interesting concept,...The scandal of grace. Such an interesting concept, Ian. I believe Chuck Swindoll uses similar language in his book, The Grace Awakening. I suspect you've already read this book, but if not, I highly recommend it, although it struck me more when I listened to it as a sermon series. I do have other concerns about Armstrongism as a collective body besides their understanding of grace, but that is a major one. Thank you for doing your part to inform your group about the amazing truth of imputed righteousness. <br /><br />If I had more time before Passover, I would have liked to elaborate that post more along the lines of - "BUT you ARE worthy because God thinks you are worthy." I recognize that many come to Passover beat up, defeated and dejected over their failures and would have liked to encourage them as well. <br /><br />Mikey, I feel like God has used you to correct me this morning. I thank you for your comments.<br /><br />I like the church that I attend, but it can be rather moralistic at times. One of the areas where many members can be extremely self-righteous is on matters of alcohol. I disagree with some of their conclusions, but I disagree even more with the way they express themselves about their conclusions. <br /><br />When we take the Lord's Supper, my husband and I sometimes remark under our breath that they are trying to "out-righteous Jesus Himself" by using grape juice instead of wine. While I can't rule out SOME moralistic motivation there, I also know that we have an active Celebrate Recovery ministry. I am going to choose to view the choice through that lens from now on. Thank you for your unknowing correction and setting my attitude straight. Marthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12438486498450616814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-71662178362448318122017-04-11T12:45:21.140-04:002017-04-11T12:45:21.140-04:00Another important thing to consider in the Armstro...Another important thing to consider in the Armstrongist churches of God is that while the ministry insists that you examine yourself to see if you are worthy, the ministers themselves are often continuing practices which not make them take the Lord's Supper unworthily, but which are also immoral, unethical and illegal (and possibly fattening). They are clueless in their hypocritical obsessive overbearing judgmental oppression of their members while completely ignoring their own faults. Often, members taking the 'Passover' feel guilty and uncomfortable about taking the bread and fruit of the vine while the ministers feel completely comfortable, knowing in their little minds that they are superior to those they are 'serving'.<br /><br />Your article may help some of these members. Still, it is well to be cognizant that in the case of the ACoGs, the problem of taking the symbols is much more problematic than just focusing on the self. There's not one whit of sensibility for the ministers to feel superior. Humility should be the order of the day for the ministry to realize how short they come to measuring up to the standard set at a much higher level than they could ever achieve.<br /><br />One can also wonder at the 'fruit of the vine'. Wine or grape juice? I know several Sabbath keeping churches of God, including the Church of God Seventh Day and the Seventh Day Church of God, Caldwell, Idaho. I have asked them about this and they made it plain that it was imminently possible for grape juice to be available at that time of year in the First Century by a variety of methods. Paul Woods uses his own grape arbor to make grape juice from his own grapes and seals the grape juice in glass containers with wax sealing them. No bacteria or yeast gets in and the grape juice is viable for years.<br /><br />Not to put too fine a point on it, alcoholics absolutely cannot drink alcohol, and that includes sacramental wine. Dr. James Milam points out that once an alcoholic enters the first stage of alcoholism (and up to the third and final stage before death), it takes <b>four years</b> before all the effects of the alcohol completely disappear. Taking wine even once a year simply 'resets the clock' and does damage to the alcoholic taking the 'Passover'. There is nothing in Scripture which would preclude grape juice, since it is taking of 'the fruit of the vine' (which those taking the Nazarite Vow would not be permitted while they were under the strictures of the Vow). Of course, the debate goes on.<br /><br />Nevertheless, if people are going to take the "Lord's Supper", all of them, including the ministry should take care that they do not take it in an unworthy manner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-7019326262971263862017-04-10T14:12:15.165-04:002017-04-10T14:12:15.165-04:00Absolutely excellent, brilliant and first-rate pie...Absolutely excellent, brilliant and first-rate piece of Biblical exegesis that SHOULD BE READ IN ALL THE CHURCHES OF GOD!!! I made the same point on Sabbath before over 230 persons in my Kingston CGI congregation. We are NEVER worthy. The law brings condemnation and wrath. Christ alone is worthy and we receive His worthiness. Romans 8 says "there IS THEREFORE NOW no condemnation" to those who stand in justification. I said openly that our old teachers were wrong in their emphases. <br /> The churches of God have missed it badly on this. This is one time of the year that GOG members should feel the freest, most liberated and most thankful for the sacrifice . It is a time to FOICUS ON CHRIST . Rather they are self-absorbed, worrying whether they are worthy. A deep tragedy! grateful I continued on that them last night at Passover services, talking about the absolute scandal of God's grace. Romans 4 says he justifies the ungodly which the Torah --the law- says should not be done. He punished the innocent(Christ) and pardon the guilty(us), including Armstrongites. So we need to claim that assurance. The doctrine of imputation was strongly emphasized in my Passover service last night You would have enjoyed it Martha. <br />Great piece this entry. I will read it at services. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-50781297260891535792017-04-10T12:26:34.429-04:002017-04-10T12:26:34.429-04:00Guilt was such a year round thing while I was a ch...Guilt was such a year round thing while I was a child in the WCG, But I do remember the tension escalating around this time of year, in what should have been a joyous celebration. Could this have been intentional on the part of WCG to make Jesus' sacrifice even LESS appealing?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09628915246495923932noreply@blogger.com