tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post7849595725538436984..comments2024-03-28T16:55:57.201-04:00Comments on AS BEREANS DID: Parties to the CovenantsMarthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12438486498450616814noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-52209291466191109702017-10-01T09:45:39.415-04:002017-10-01T09:45:39.415-04:00Yeah. I agree, Miller Jones. It will persuade almo...Yeah. I agree, Miller Jones. It will persuade almost no one. That's a very frustrating component of having a blog like this.<br /><br />We have seen that most people are not intellectually legalist, they are emotionally legalists. The reason people leave is emotional. We can't give anyone that. Best we can hope for is to help people give themselves license to doubt the official narrative.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-41980973957129586232017-08-30T07:42:20.147-04:002017-08-30T07:42:20.147-04:00Excellent points about the legal aspects of the te...Excellent points about the legal aspects of the terms of the covenant with Israel, and these arguments should be especially persuasive to folks enamored with legalism. However, as you know, this argument (law vs grace) is as old as Christianity itself, and it is doubtful that many Armstrongites will be persuaded by your piece. As the old saying goes, "one convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" (I seem to recall someone named Herbert using that line fairly often).Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865316200703641028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-51144938492209029832017-08-28T11:59:35.544-04:002017-08-28T11:59:35.544-04:00Yes. Obviously, singing during scripture reading i...Yes. Obviously, singing during scripture reading is generally not desirable. Yet, not having a particular person as the leader does not mean chaos either. If people are spiritually mature, various people can take the lead at various times when needed either by agreement or through the action of the Holy Spirit. Meeting with wiser men that can provide guidance is wonderful and those that take keen interest in your walk are to be treasured. You are blessed to have that.Ekklesianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-67054727442552115232017-08-27T20:13:20.743-04:002017-08-27T20:13:20.743-04:00I'm sure we can just imply right off the bat, ...I'm sure we can just imply right off the bat, after 9 years of blogging polemics contrary to Armstrong, that I an <b>not</b> now suddenly in favor of their abusive governing style. And that is exactly what it usually is - abusive (not in absolutely every case, but mostly).<br /><br />But I've always given credit to Armstrongism where it has stumbled across something that I actually agree with.<br /><br />"If you are simply saying that there are those that have the gift of being elders that can serve, exposit, and encourage others, then I agree. If you are saying that it is best for Christians to have a fellowship, I agree. If there are those that apparently have Godly gifts and abilities that can help the congregation then I believe those should be used."<br /><br />I wouldn't say I'm "simply saying that" because there's more to it, but yeah, those are things that I am saying. It is good to be in a fellowship and use your gifts for the benefit of others. <br />The more to it is that there actually was a structure. It's not just about who can teach or has gifts, it's also about avoiding chaos. A structure is something that I read about both in the New Testament and in the early church fathers and that I see in the archaeological discoveries they are making these days. Even when you get together locally, it would be disruptive to have someone singing when it's time to read scripture, or teaching Armstrongism unchecked because no one believes in authority structures.<br /><br />I hope to always be guided and shepherded. I've met men far wiser and deeper in faith than myself, and I enjoy the comfort of their shepherding. And I've noticed that they always have someone that they look to for guidance and shepherding. It's not something I feel is a mark of immaturity at all. Quite the contrary.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-21534300035242053812017-08-22T11:49:43.496-04:002017-08-22T11:49:43.496-04:00What should one draw from your comment about hiera...What should one draw from your comment about hierarchy and organizations above? Which organization are you following the Lord under? Are you a part of the guiding and shepherding or are you being guided and shepherded by some other elder? I believe that those early to the faith and those that are young are almost exclusively the ones that are guided and shepherded. Paul asks those in Corinth "should you not be teachers by now?"<br /><br />Hierarchy and an organization having spiritual authority over established and mature individuals is very hard to justify and is not evident after the giving of the holy spirit. Further, how does one determine today which organization has the Lord's stamp of approval. I suppose all I am saying is the COGs try to control mature members and diminish them in comparison to those in their chosen hierarchy. If you are simply saying that there are those that have the gift of being elders that can serve, exposit, and encourage others, then I agree. If you are saying that it is best for Christians to have a fellowship, I agree. If there are those that apparently have Godly gifts and abilities that can help the congregation then I believe those should be used. But, those gifts are not exclusive to one or two in a given congregation. I am convinced that local people getting together locally and growing and allowing the holy spirit to have its work so as to reveal gifts and thus grow faith is preferable to most organizations I have seen. Ekklesianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-8728223763739923842017-08-17T20:54:00.106-04:002017-08-17T20:54:00.106-04:00I don't really want to get into the hierarchy ...I don't really want to get into the hierarchy or organization topic here. Just wanted to politely remind everyone that Jesus created a church, by definition an organisation, and that church is His body here on earth. Then He set a hierarchy of Apostles over it and had them anoint elders and deacons in every area to guide and shepherd it. I understand it's very popular in certain parts of the world these days to denounce organizations, but that really isn't something I personally see as supportable from a Biblical foundation. That's all I wanted to say.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-86139120070158510342017-08-17T20:47:12.483-04:002017-08-17T20:47:12.483-04:00We didn't really go into it in these two posts...We didn't really go into it in these two posts but covenants have a familial component. A covenant in the Old Testament mind had the effect of making strangers into family. You can see it throughout in the language used. The familial component naturally was understood to pass down.<br /><br />But what's more than that the Old Testament throughout is filled with language making it clear that the Old Covenant was from generation to Generation. For example, Exodus 31: 16:<br />"The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant."<br /><br />God was making a special people, set aside to be the group through whom Jesus would eventually be born. Passing it on to the next generation is kinda critical here.<br /><br />Even with all of that said it never at any time applied to the Gentiles, who were strangers to the covenant and were not members of the family of Israel.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-26379223621760852492017-08-16T10:40:28.936-04:002017-08-16T10:40:28.936-04:00Yet, what of those that were not alive when the co...Yet, what of those that were not alive when the covenant was made and later went into bondage for such things as Sabbath breaking? You can't be tied to the terms of a covenant your great great great grandfather made. <br /><br />Neh. 9:14 states "And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:"<br /><br />These people were not present when the covenant was made, but it seems that it is in effect for those that want to serve the Lord.<br /><br />I believe the COGs did a disservice to the Sabbath and serving the Lord. Their hierarchy of men created rules and exceptions that added an arbitrary and judgmental element to their dogma. Our loyalty is to the Lord not an organization.Ekklesianoreply@blogger.com