Showing posts with label Bereans. Show all posts

I wanted to go over some great points made by jdposey from the Below Top Secret forum, in his/her Deceitful Conspiracy of Ronald Weinland post, and follow with some comments of my own. Underlined & Bolded emphasis in RED, mine;

Topic started on 27-2-2008 @ 12:02 PM by jdposey

Content from external source: For that matter, none of the Book of Revelation was written so that just anyone reading it could understand. It has to be revealed through God’s servants, and most of it was reserved to be revealed at this end-time through God’s end-time prophet— me. (Ronald Weinland: 2008 God’s Final Witness, Page-87)

Content from external source: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophesy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:3) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.(Revelation 22:7)

JDPOSEY: Here again, is Mr. Weinland thinking more of himself than he should, or, do we take note of his previous statement regarding boldness, confidence and clarity and hand complete authority over to him, assuming we are hopeless and without capability of understanding the contents regarding the Book of Revelation? Given the scriptural references above, “Blessed is he that readeth” and “Blessed is he that keepeth,” the two scriptures mention nothing in regard to Mr. Weinland’s statement that the Book of Revelation was written in such a way that not just anyone could understand it.The only obvious handicap would be to those who refuse to “hear the words.” Like V3 of Revelation 1 states, “Blessed is the one who reads, hears, and keeps. If that were not possible, like Mr. Weinland wants to lead his readers to believe, then I believe we would find that indicated in the Book of Revelation. Not to mention, we would also find the verse which advises us to “wait for the appointed one,” after all Mr. Weinland states: and most of it (Book of Revelation) was reserved to be revealed at this end-time through God’s end-time prophet— me.

SEEKERS COMMENT: So let's understand this; No one REALLY knows what the Bible means, but Ron DOES! Hmm, how fortunate for people. *Sarcastically*; You know - since God only works with prophets, and doesn't provide us with the Counselor, the Holy Spirit! *KNOCK KNOCK* HELLO!* Is God a liar? Then why do you act like the ripped curtain has been put back up? Why would you think that the HOLY SPIRIT is not CAPABLE of causing you to grow spiritually when you study at home, just you, GOD & JESUS?! Because Ron SAID SO? Is he God? Then why do you allow him to STAND BETWEEN YOU AND GOD? I'd be willing to bet you don't even remember him saying this, do you?

posted on 27-2-2008 @ 12:11 PM by jdposey

Content from external source: The First Thunder is the beginning terror of war The Second Thunder is the increasing destruction generated by earthquakes. The Third Thunder is the growing destructiveness from weather. The Fourth Thunder is global economic upheaval The Fifth Thunder is death The Sixth Thunder is the growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses. That revelation is that I am the spokesman of God’s two end-time prophets. The Seventh Thunder is the accelerated revelation of God to man.

JDPOSEY: Are we to believe that the very signs which Jesus spoke almost 2000 years ago concerning his return and the end of the age (end-time) have now become something NEW because Mr. Weinland chose to squeeze them into the sealed seven thunders, somewhat revamping them? Even his mentor, Herbert W. Armstrong was not as bold as Mr. Weinland. At least he had some reservation in his self deception. Mr. Weinland has loosed the boundaries of deception, exceeding any fallacies that Mr. Armstrong might have incurred.
If you follow Mr. Weinland’s thinking process regarding the Seven Thunders being the very signs which Jesus gave to his disciples, and then try to compare that thinking to Revelation 10:4 where John is advised to seal and not write these Seven thunders down, then you have to ask yourself, better yet, ask Mr. Weinland, “If these thunders are no more than the signs which Jesus gave to his disciples, and were evident even to John, who personally heard these signs spoken by Jesus, don’t you believe there would have been no need for John to seal them, if they were something already known by John and many others? The fact is, the Seven Thunders have nothing to do with the signs which Jesus gave to His disciples, and for Mr. Weinland to lead people astray in thinking they are, not only is he responsible for his own deception but also for deceiving his readers.

SEEKERS COMMENT: This is a very logical and legitimate point, and COG-PKG members should be asking this very question! WHY would John be told to seal up the thunders if all they consisted of, were the VERY signs that Jesus gave to His disciples? Amplified or not.

Content from an external source: If you believe anything about God other than what is written in this book, then you do not know the true God of Abraham... This book reveals God’s plan and purpose being worked out on this earth, and therefore, it reveals the true God!...Time is not on your side any longer. You have before you true life and death decisions that must be made quickly if you have any hope of sharing in that new age. (Ronald Weinland: 2008 God’s Final Witness, pages 243, 244)

JDPOSEY: Look at the dilemma Mr. Weinland leaves his readers in! They have ONLY two choices. One, if you believe anything other than what is written in his book, then you do not know God. Second, (FEAR) Time is running out, life and death decision must be made NOW. Let me sum up what Mr. Weinland is saying: Time is of the essence, unless you accept that I am one of the Two Witnesses, receive everything I have written in this book, by way of Church of God-PKG doctrinal teaching and the fearful warning as I have laid out, there is no hope for you, you will be lost!

SEEKERS COMMENT: Wow! What a pair! What a big pair, to say that we should believe nothing about God other than what is written in his book! No thanks! I'm sticking with God's Book! I'm not falling for that deception! The Bible already warned me about people like this - and I paid attention. The Bible tells us that if we know God's Word, we can't be tricked.

So, yeah, I DO believe things about God other than what is written in Ron's book. In fact, what I believe, I got from THE Book; The Bible!

It is ALSO interesting that, according to Ron's statement, the only way to know the TRUE God of Abraham, is to read RON'S book! Ron's! - No, not GOD'S book - but RON'S! So, we don't know God, because what we believe, we got from the Bible & NOT from Ron's book! I say again; what a pair!

The BIBLE is THE BOOK that reveals God's plan and purpose being worked out on the earth!

Ron's book has become like the Book of Mormon! Ron's book, like the Book of Mormon, supercedes the Bible. Yes, the Bible has become secondary. And, by the way, so has God, because according to Ron; we can't study at home, 'just me and God and Jesus' and somehow grow spiritually. Spiritual growth can only be accomplished through listening to Ron! Of course! How else can he gain and maintain control? He knows he will lose anyone who knows their Bible.

"I am not duped!" Let me ask you this; How can you be duped if you know you're duped? If someone has been duped - obviously - they do not know it! Do you think duped people know they're duped? Of course not, that's practically an oxymoron; the duped saying they're not duped. Would you expect someone to say; "I'm being duped."? You can't be duped and know it, otherwise, you're not being duped. See the dilemma?

Why would you continue following Ron, when he's had to create a BRAND NEW timeline because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HE SAID, HAS ACTUALLY OCCURED! You wouldn't.

Remember how some of you said you could see that we're in the Tribulation, you saw it because you had the eyes to see, because you must have the Holy Spirit to see, to know? What happened to that Tribulation? Well, Ron said, oops, don't worry I'll fix it, I'll just create a new timeline and hope something happens in 2008 or this is really going look bad, after all it IS the name of my book!

Everything in his FIRST time line has passed now. Day 90 of his 45 to 90 days was yesterday; July 16th. Since the 7 Thunders were to have all sounded. As the blogs pointed out from the beginning; Ron Weinland is a false prophet. We told you that the ONLY so-called "thunder" anyone was AWARE of, was the event that had already taken place when Ron began his books; 9/11, which he claimed to be the 1ST Thunder. Of course EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT 9/11 IS. But WHAT OF THE OTHER 6? Nothing. Why? Ask yourself. The entire world was glued to their televisions on 9/11. Was the entire world glued to them for the other 6 which were to INCREASE IN INTENSITY? No. They were not. They never happened, just as the blogs said from the start, despite the fact that some of you could see that we were in the Tribulation that Ron later said did not happen after all.

How many times does he have to change his story (timeline) before the lights come on? Will you stick with him after 2008 has passed and the title of his book is outdated, I mean; it would mean God gave him the wrong year and thus the wrong title for his book? Which do you choose? Truth, or fiction? If your eye is on the goal, you can only want one thing; TRUTH. No other road leads to the Kingdom of God.

I could make some "prophesies" and keep changing the date (as all false prophets have done) until something similar to my prediction finally happened and then say; "See? I was telling you the truth!" The problem is; When God says something will happen, it will happen just as He said. If the date I gave rolled around and nothing happened - walk away, because it was not of God!

COG-PKG members, do you REALLY, NOT see a problem here? I can only conclude that you do not put any time or effort into researching what Ron calls truth!! Because, if you did, you'd see right through his deceit. You CANNOT ride somebody's coat-tail into the kingdom of God! It is YOUR responsibility to verify what is and isn't TRUTH! You can't just pull a chair up to the desk or table on Saturday, take notes about what Ron says, then close your Bible and notebook and walk away!!! It just DOES NOT work that way! You MUST research these so-called "truths" of Ron's, as the noble Bereans did, BEYOND the scriptures Ron gives you! If you did that, you'd have a shocking revelation, because you'd be surprised to see just how EASY it is to prove Ron a FALSE teacher, let alone, prophet! All it takes is effort. You're not following God, you're following Ron; a man.

God wants to know "who is he who will DEVOTE himself to be CLOSE to me?" Jer. 30:21. You can't devote yourself to God, if you have devoted yourself to following Ron!

1Co. 1:12 "...One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas (Peter)"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you..., 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name... 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Which Ron has done by;

• denouncing WHO Christ Jesus IS! Claiming that He was CREATED!!! And by;
• teaching Old Covenant - which alienates you from Jesus, making Him of no use to you; Gal. 5:2 "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised [reliance on Old Covenant], Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

I can only wonder if;

1) You haven't REALLY read his book, or

2) You didn't understand what Ron was saying in his book, or

3) You've never really dug into your Bible before, so you just can't tell what's truth and what's not, or

4) You are, regrettably, not following the example of the Bereans, or

5) Perhaps, because you've studied your Bible some time in your past, you don't feel it's necessary to do so your entire life, or

6) Maybe you don't have the time or energy - that could be quite costly in the end, or

7) a combination of any of the above.

You've been robbed of WHO JESUS IS! - How amazing for God to give up His Deity to take on the lowly, disgusting form of a human, imagine. To feel the physical pain of torture, for us...His creation. His VERY unworthy, selfish, greedy, mean, spiteful, stealing, murdering, warring, nasty, nasty creation. It's not like He gave up His Deity to come down and save some noble, righteous people...but to save a people who aren't worthy to exist.

I am bewildered and concerned for you all.

You can no longer allow a man to stand between you and God. You've put your trust in Ron, so of what value is the Holy Spirit? Ron says you cant grow spiritually at home, just you and God and Jesus. He tells you that you must rely on him, and this, you have done. When do you begin relying on God Himself? I pray God will soon lead you to His Truth and away from Ron's lies.

I am reposting this article. However, it differs from the original in that there are a few alterations and additions. I will follow up with a related article on July 7TH.

************

It is my hope that those who believe that, or are not yet sure if, Ron Weinland is a prophet or that what he teaches is truth will do as the Bereans did, to check the scriptures to see if what he says is true. My hope also, is that you will follow my suggestions in the box below.

First, Ron claims that Jesus is not Yahweh and also that those who teach this are mistaken. I have scripture that says otherwise. Why does it matter? Because he uses this lie to assist in the denial of Christ having always existed.

I will open with,

2Jn. 7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming (G2064 having come) in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. V.8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. V.10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. V.11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Ron dismisses the truth of:

Jn.4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of god; Every spirit (G4151 The rational soul) that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

He says this scripture is NOT about a self existent eternal Jesus coming to earth in the form of a flesh body, rather about Jesus dwelling in our flesh. This is a lie! When scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, it is quite clear, and this scripture is not one of them! Ron claims people just don't understand the bible, then proceeds to explain what the scripture 'REALLY' means! I'll make an entry later, that covers the topic of whether or not we must be taught by others (clergy), as opposed to the Holy Spirit.

Why say he came in FLESH if he had a beginning? It would be stating the obvious. Anyone born, is of the FLESH. However, if God had been made flesh, it then makes sense to state it. Moreover, why would scripture mention anyone denying Jesus’ Spirit dwelling in us? Are there any scriptures you have seen that talk about people that don’t acknowledge Jesus’ Spirit dwelling in us? I haven’t seen any. When the Bible talks about the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, it is quite evident!

I won’t take the stance that he has: 2008—God’s Final Witness, Page51,

'I am simply to state the truth as it is. I do not have to spend endless hours defending it, debating it or expounding upon it. The truth is simply the truth…' (Bold his).

Rather, my stance is 1Pe.3:15….”Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.”

This is my aim here. To offer the proofs of my belief statements.

When I first began listening to Ron and heard his questionable teachings, I spent ten months searching scriptures to see if what he said in his sermons and books were true. I found many of his teachings to contradict the Bible!

If you have an interlinear you will see that Jer. 23:5-6 Is talking about Jesus and that in v.6 it says the name he will be called by is the LORD our Righteousness.
Two things; * Ron explains: that LORD, all caps, in the bible, is the word Yahweh (H3068 Eternal, Self-Existent) which is true - see your interlinear,
* and that only the Father is called Yahweh and that Jesus is not. However, this verse says otherwise. Verse 5 and 6 are talking of the coming of Jesus in the flesh. It says in v.6 he will be called Yahweh.

5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.

6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The LORD Our Righteousness.

Zec.2:8 For this is what the LORD (G3068 Yahweh-Eternal; self-existent) says: After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations… [The Father sends the Son, the Son doesn’t send the Father. These two verses make it quite clear that they are both called Yahweh.]

8 For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-
9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.

Now, we see in 1Tim. 3:16 [if you have an interlinear you will not be held back in your studies, and you will see this verse says,] God was manifested in flesh. [If you have a concordance, you may be able to find these translations in the back of it. The Strong's number for the words are as
follows]: v.16 He [actual Greek word translates; God (G2316)], appeared [translates; Manifested (G5319)] in a body [translates; flesh (G4561).]

If you don't have an interlinear but have a concordance that provides the Strong's Numbers, you can use it to find the original word and definitions in the back. However I prefer a Greek, Hebrew dictionary.

Php. 2:5-8 {Need interlinear to translate properly} says; v.6 Who, subsisting (G5225) in form of (G3444) God, did not consider equality with God to be plunder (G725) [i.e., something he should grasp and not let loose of], v.7 but emptied (G2758) himself [became flesh, no longer spirit], taking the very nature of a servant [did not come to be served but to serve] being made in human likeness. V.8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death [if you are flesh you die, that’s obedience to death]– even death on the cross.

If he was created, had a beginning, why say he was made in human likeness? Anyone born is in human likeness. If he was created, what did he empty himself of? If he was created, why say he was found in appearance as a man? What other appearance is there for a human? If he was created, what did he humbled himself of? If he was created, how did he become obedient to death? Are not ALL HUMANS obedient to death? Is there anyone who can defy death?

Obviously, we are all familiar with;

Jn. 1:4 the word became flesh. And,
Rev. 19:13 his name is the word of God.

So, do we ignore these scriptures and believe when Ron says the 'word' was the Father's spoken word and NOT a being who became flesh?

2 Cor. 8:9 talks about him giving up his spirit body for a flesh one, it says; Jesus was rich [spirit/eternal], yet for your sakes he became poor [flesh], so that you through his poverty [flesh body] might become rich [gain eternal life through his sacrifice].

1 Jn. 4:2 Jesus has come, (G2064 having come) in the flesh... Ron says this is talking about Jesus dwelling in us! Absolutely false. When the Bible talks about the Father or Jesus dwelling in us, it is quite obvious. This is not about that, but about Jesus having come in a flesh body; giving up his richness (spirit body) to be poor (flesh body) for our salvation.
What love, for our God to give up His glorious spirit body and take on the form of a flesh body, a body that does what our lowly human bodies do, sweat, go to the bathroom etc., Like any great leader, He left His 'desk' to be in the 'trenches' with His 'men', and in that human form He felt the pain of physical torture to the death, to save a bunch of unworthy humans! Truly, there is no greater love!
He gave up his spirit body and became flesh, relying on the Father to raise his flesh body from death and return him to the Glory he had before!

1Cor.15:47-49 says Adam was of the dust of the earth [flesh], Jesus the Lord (G2962 Kurios) out of heaven [spirit]. As was the earthly [flesh] man (Adam), so are those who are of the earth ; and as is the man from heaven, [spirit], so are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly [flesh] man (Adam), so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven [spirit].

Jn. 6:38-42 Note: v.38 For I have come down from heaven. V.41 The Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “ I am the bread that came down from heaven.” V.42 They said, “Isn’t this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he say ‘I came down from heaven’?” [What were they upset about? That God caused a virgin to birth him or that he claims to have come from heaven?]

Jn.6:62 What if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before?

Ep.4:9 What does “ascended” mean, except that he also descended…

Col. 1:16-18 is talking about Jesus and says; for by him all things were created. And also the following scripture;

Jn. 1:10…the world was made through him…[How can something be created though him if he hadn’t been born yet because he had a beginning? Are we going to call this a metaphor or say 'it is BEING created through him everyday'? The bible CLEARLY is not saying that. We know it is speaking of THE creation.]

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. [Again, how can the Father create a universe through an unborn son that doesn't exist yet?
And a quick note for those who may ask 'how can He inherit what is already his?' What makes you think he already owned it? Does your child own now, the family Bible you intend to pass onto them one day? No, it still belongs to you.

Note:

Jeremiah 10:16 He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these,
for he is the Maker of all things,
including Israel, the tribe of his inheritance—
the LORD Almighty is his name.

[Israel is Yahweh's inheritance. This argues a couple of things;

1) the 'how can He inherit what He already owns?' question, is not a good argument to try to prove Jesus had a beginning, because this scripture says Yahweh inherits. Meaning; if only the Father is Yahweh, then the Father inherits...so this question, in regards to Jesus, doesn't hold water.

2)Who is the Portion of Jacob? Jesus is, and the One who is the Portion of Jacob is the Maker of all things, and His name is Yahweh. Meaning; Jesus is the Maker of all things and, Jesus is Yahweh also, not just the Father. Following, are a couple more;]

Zechariah 2:12 The LORD [Yahweh] will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem.

Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.]

Heb. 1:10 [Now, go over this chapter carefully] v.8 But about the Son he says...V.10 He also says, in the beginning O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Ron explains this away, saying that v.10 is about the Father creating. If that were true, this sentence would read something like this: The Father also says, "In the beginning O Me the Father laid the foundations… [The Father is not talking to himself, he’s talking to Jesus.]

Jg.6:11-14 [We know that LORD is Yahweh, and we see here that the angel of the LORD visits Gideon, and we see in v.11 that this messenger is Yahweh. So this ‘angel of the LORD is God and if only the Father existed at that time, as Ron says, then these verses are calling the Father, the Messenger (angel means messenger) of himself. Did the Father send himself to give a message to Gideon? No, he sent Jesus.]

1co.10:4 …drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them and that rock was Christ.

1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
[This statement; ' accompanied them' is information Paul got from Ex. 13:21! (below), note the next three scriptures.]

Ex.3:8 (v.3-8) So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land….[Who came down to rescue them? Who accompanied them? Jesus, the Christ, as we see in the above scripture. Who was in the burning bush then? Well, I'd say Jesus, the Christ.]

Ex.13:21 By day the LORD [Yahweh] went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud..and by night in a pillar of fire.. [Yes, ahead of them was Jesus.]

Jg.2:1The angel of the LORD [messenger of Yahweh, Father and Son are each called Yahweh,] went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said,” I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers.

[The individual who is speaking says He brought them out of Egypt...this individual is the messenger of Yahweh. So this messenger of Yahweh brought them out of Egypt and led them to the land that this messenger of Yahweh swore to give to their forfathers. Did a created angel swear to give them that land? No.]

Zec.14:3-9 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the mount of Olives… [If “LORD” is Yahweh and if only the Father is Yahweh, as Ron teaches, then this would be saying the Father, and not Jesus, will fight and stand on the Mt. We know this is not the case.]

Ron also explains away (Gen.1:1) In the beginning God (H430 Elohiym) created the heavens and…. The New Strong’s Complete Dictionary of Bible Words, says: (H430 Elohiym; Plural of H433 Elowahh, eloahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article –the-) of the supreme God).

Ron also points to (Is.45:18)…”I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Let’s look more closely at this.

In (V.1) we see he is addressing Cyrus, who is to be born in the future (v.13), telling him of His plans for him (v.14-16). Saying that Egypt and Cush will come to him in chains and, will be his. They will bow before him and plead with him, saying, “Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.”(V.16) All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced… (V.18) …”I am the LORD, and there is no other. This is in reference to idols.

Does it matter? Is it important?

As Ron says in his book 2008—God’s final witness, on page 46:

“If some doctrine or belief in God is a lie, then by its very definition it cannot be true or from God. People who embrace any of the thousands of ‘Christian’ beliefs need to know what their church teaches, where their beliefs originate, and whether they truly come from God. If they find lies, then they must change or willingly submit to what they know is false, and thereby be guilty of opposing the one true God.”

[And I know you are aware this doesn't exclude Ron.]

He asks, on page 50 in regard to Sunday worship:

Why do they feel they must defend this doctrine themselves by twisting and misrepresenting scriptures so that they seemingly indicate that there is some validity in …

[whatever the subject may,] (underline and bold, mine).

I ask this same question of those who believe the biblical contradictions that Ron teaches. Contradictions that require twisting and, misrepresentation of scriptures so that they seemingly indicate that there is some validity in what he teaches. Contradictions that one can easily see with:

• simple study of scripture, (as the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians because they searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true, Ac.17:11), And

• a desire to see the truth regardless of the source and,

• a willingness to not so readily defend a doctrine that may- by discovery of any particular scripture- be a lie, because you think, or thought your original source or belief to be correct.

Are we interested in defending our belief in something, at any cost, or are we interested in the truth even if it pulls the rug out from under us? Is your heart in pleasing God?

One final thought/scripture to leave you with;

Isaiah 43:10

10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, [Yahweh (H3068 Eternal, Self-Existent]
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.

So.... If Jesus had a beginning... a God WAS formed!
Someone is NOT telling you the TRUTH!
And God is no liar.

It is my hope that those who believe that, or are not yet sure if, Ron Weinland is a prophet or that what he teaches is truth will do as the Bereans did, to check the scriptures to see if what he says is true. My hope also, is that you will follow my suggestions in the box below.

First, Ron claims that Jesus is not Yahweh and also that those who teach this are mistaken. I have scripture that says otherwise. Why does it matter? Because he uses this lie to assist in the denial of Christ having always existed.

I will open with,

2Jn. 7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming (G2064 having come) in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. V.8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. V.10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. V.11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Ron dismisses the truth of:

Jn.4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of god; Every spirit (G4151 The rational soul) that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

He says this scripture is NOT about a self existent eternal Jesus coming to earth in the form of a flesh body, rather about Jesus dwelling in our flesh. This is a lie! When scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, it is quite clear, and this scripture is not one of them! Ron claims people just don't understand the bible, then proceeds to explain what the scripture 'REALLY' means! I'll make an entry later, that covers the topic of whether or not we must be taught by others (clergy), as opposed to the Holy Spirit.

Why say he came in FLESH if he had a beginning? It would be stating the obvious. Anyone born, is of the FLESH. However, if God had been made flesh, it then makes sense to state it. Moreover, why would scripture mention anyone denying Jesus’ Spirit dwelling in us? Are there any scriptures you have seen that talk about people that don’t acknowledge Jesus’ Spirit dwelling in us? I haven’t seen any. When the Bible talks about the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, it is quite evident!

I won’t take the stance that he has: 2008—God’s Final Witness, Page51,

'I am simply to state the truth as it is. I do not have to spend endless hours defending it, debating it or expounding upon it. The truth is simply the truth…' (Bold his).

Rather, my stance is 1Pe.3:15….”Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.”

This is my aim here. To offer the proofs of my belief statements.

I spent ten months searching scriptures to see if what Ron said in his sermons and books were true. I found many of his teachings to contradict the Bible!

If you have an interlinear you will see that Jer. 23:5-6 Is talking about Jesus and that in v.6 it says the name he will be called by is the LORD our Righteousness.
Two things; * Ron explains: that LORD, all caps, in the bible, is the word Yahweh (H3068 Eternal, Self-Existent) which is true - see your interlinear,
* and that only the Father is called Yahweh and that Jesus is not. However, this verse says otherwise. Verse 5 and 6 are talking of the coming of Jesus in the flesh. It says in v.6 he will be called Yahweh.

5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.

6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The LORD Our Righteousness.

Zec.2:8 For this is what the LORD (G3068 Yahweh-Eternal; self-existent) says: After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations… [The Father sends the Son, the Son doesn’t send the Father So, obviously they are both called Yahweh.]

8 For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-
9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.

Now, we see in 1Tim. 3:16 [if you have an interlinear you will not be held back in your studies, and you will see this verse says,] God was manifested in flesh. [If you have a concordance, you may be able to find these translations in the back of it. The Strong's number for the words are as
follows]: v.16 He [actual Greek word translates; God (G2316)], appeared [translates; Manifested (G5319)] in a body [translates; flesh (G4561).]

If you don't have an interlinear but have a concordance that provides the Strongs Numbers, you can use it to find the original word and definitions in the back. However I prefer a Greek, Hebrew dictionary.

Php. 2:5-8 {Need interlinear to translate properly} says; v.6 Who, subsisting (G5225) in form of (G3444) God, did not consider equality with God to be plunder (G725) [i.e., something he should grasp and not let loose of], v.7 but emptied (G2758) himself [became flesh, no longer spirit], taking the very nature of a servant [did not come to be served but to serve] being made in human likeness. V.8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death [if you are flesh you die, that’s obedience to death]– even death on the cross.

If he was created, had a beginning, why say he was made in human likeness? Anyone born is in human likeness. If he was created, what did he empty himself of? If he was created, why say he was found in appearance as a man? What other appearance is there for a human? If he was created, what did he humbled himself of? If he was created, how did he become obedient to death? Are not ALL HUMANS obedient to death? Is there anyone who can defy death?

Obviously, we are all familiar with,

Jn. 1:4 the word became flesh. And,
Rev. 19:13 his name is the word of God.

So, do we ignore these scriptures and believe when Ron says the 'word' was the Father's spoken word and NOT a being who became flesh?

2 Cor. 8:9 talks about him giving up his spirit body for a flesh one, it says; Jesus was rich [spirit/eternal], yet for your sakes he became poor [flesh], so that you through his poverty [flesh body] might become rich [gain eternal life through his sacrifice].

1 Jn. 4:2 Jesus has come, (G2064 having come) in the flesh... Ron says this is talking about Jesus dwelling in us! Absolutely false. When the bible talks about the Father or Jesus dwelling in us, it is quite obvious. This is not about that, but about Jesus having come in a flesh body; giving up his richness (spirit body) to be poor (flesh body) for our salvation.
What love, for our God to give up his glorious spirit body and take on the form of a flesh body, a body that does what our lowly human bodies do, sweat, go to the bathroom etc., and to feel the pain of physical torture to save a bunch of unworthy humans! Truly, that is love!
He gave up his spirit body and became flesh, relying on the Father to raise his flesh body from death and return him to the Glory he had before!

1Cor.15:47-49 says Adam was of the dust of the earth [flesh], Jesus the Lord (G2962 Kurios) out of heaven [spirit]. As was the earthly [flesh] man (Adam), so are those who are of the earth ; and as is the man from heaven, [spirit], so are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly [flesh] man (Adam), so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven [spirit].

Jn. 6:38-42 Note: v.38 For I have come down from heaven. V.41 The Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “ I am the bread that came down from heaven.” V.42 They said, “Isn’t this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he say ‘I came down from heaven’?” [What were they upset about? That God caused a virgin to birth him or that he claims to have come from heaven?]

Jn.6:62 What if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before?

Ep.4:9 What does “ascended” mean, except that he also descended…

Col. 1:16-18 is talking about Jesus and says; for by him all things were created. And also the following scripture,

Jn. 1:10…the world was made through him…[How can something be created though him if he hadn’t been born yet because he had a beginning? Are we going to call this a metaphor or say 'it is BEING created through him everyday'? The bible CLEARLY is not saying that. We know it is speaking of THE creation.]