What Is the Fate of Old Covenant Keepers?

What of those who choose to be under the Old Covenant, what of their fate? Do they have the Holy Spirit? Is their salvation at stake? If not, where do they wind up in the Kingdom? What resurrection do they receive?


These are questions I have been asking myself for two or three years now. I have realized, as of late, that there is obviously a consequence or Paul would have said nothing to the Galatians.
He would not have told them that they were alienating themselves from Christ, had fallen away from Grace. He would not have told them that Christ would be of no value to them at all.

If you do not keep the Holy Days or the Sabbath... guess what? Your salvation is not in jeopardy! I repeat, you, by no means, jeopardize your salvation by not keeping Sabbaths! There is nothing wrong, however, with observing them if you realize it is no longer commanded, as long as you know it's not a command and that salvation cannot be attained, or get you closer to attaining it by doing so.

Consider the following verses: Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

[If you can gain salvation by keeping the Sabbaths, then.. Christ.. died.. for ..nothing. And if He died for nothing, He is of no value to you.
Consequence: If He is of no value to you, He cannot dwell within you, no Holy Spirit, because you are cut off from Him.]

Gal. 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

[Notice his statement; "Mark my words" i.e.; "I'm warning you. If you rely on O.C. laws for salvation, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

Consequence: If Christ is of no value to you, you do not have Christ dwelling in you. He cannot pay your debt if you are relying on O.C.]


Gal.2:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
[If you believe that keeping the Sabbaths are a requirement for attaining salvation, then you are under a curse because if you don't keep the law in it's entirety, flawlessly, you cannot be credited righteousness.
Consequence: Since, obviously, everyone sins; without repentance, on this path you will not be part of the Bride.]

Gal. 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
[If you rely on the O.C. laws for salvation, Christ is of no value to you- meaning; rather than receive salvation through Him, you are attempting to gain it by your own efforts.
Consequence: Without repentance, you are destined for the pit, because there is no such thing as a perfect human, and perfect is what you'd have to be in order to obtain righteousness though O.C. observances. You cannot have the Holy Spirit if you are cut off from Christ. You cannot receive the grace you have fallen away from.]

Gal. 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
[The analogy that Paul uses here, of the two women, is so clear. The Slave Woman is the Old Covenant. The Free Woman is the New Covenant. We are not children of the Old Covenant, but of the New Covenant.
Consequence: Those who keep Old Covenant laws because they believe they are required to, will not inherit with the Bride of Christ. You will not be part of the Bride of Christ.]

Gal.3:11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Now, I know some, if not all of you don't believe you are keeping the Old Covenant, but you are.
Why do I say this? How do I know? Because the Bible makes it quite clear. The Sabbaths are Old Covenant, that is; the Mount Sinai law, which was given to the Israelites. Jesus ended that Contract when He died on the cross to pay our debt for the sins we commit and have committed. Which brought into effect, the New Contract.

Don't be so easily fooled into thinking that you are to keep things from the O.C. because you think Jesus magnified the law. He did not!

For goodness sake, surely you realize that contracts can have similarities. Do you think that if God were to give you a new contract, that it could not contain anything about Love? 

God can make as many contracts as He chooses and everyone of them can and will be about Love. Do you think God was so shortsighted that He used up His one contract that could contain Love? Do you really think that if He makes a new contract and it doesn't use the ten examples written in stone, of what Love is and isn't, that it means this new contract permits sin!? Of course it doesn't.

Do you really need God to spell out for you what Love is? The ten items written in stone were merely ten examples of what Love is and is not, which didn't even include every sin that man has committed! It doesn't mention pedophilia, but that doesn't mean it's not a sin! So why would you think that by not being under the ten commandments, (part of the Old Contract), that it would mean sinning is okay?

You are keeping the old contract/covenant, you are not keeping a modified or amplified contract. That is not permitted! Paul tells us this is so;

Gal.3:15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.

So you see that the contract could not have been modified or amplified in any way!

As Christians we should know what we believe, and we should know why we believe it. At some point in time we should be able to somewhat easily lay it out for others who may ask us about what and why we believe what we do.

Read the book of Galatians and do some thinking. You are intelligent, and I know you want God's truth.

I know that if you read something in the Bible that doesn't quite fit with your current beliefs or make sense, you will ponder over it and consider it rather than just read past it and ignore it, because we are seekers of truth, and as such, we pour through the scriptures with the goal of getting to know God and learning about the things that will please Him. We are on a quest for truth. It's an ongoing education, so we may have to say; "Well, as I understand it at this point in time, I believe/think it means..."

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You know what I think about the quest for truth and how to find it?

It's pretty simple actually;

1)WANT THE TRUTH
if you don't truly want it, you won't get it

2)DON'T ASK OTHERS WHAT THEY THINK THE TRUTH IS
leave it to God to reveal this, He is smarter than people

3)TELL GOD YOU WANT THE TRUTH
now that you know you want it, you need to tell Him you want it

4)TELL GOD YOU HAVE NO PREFERENCES FOR WHAT THE TRUTH IS
for me, I told Him; "It doesn't matter to me; if I am required to keep Sabbaths fine, if I am not required to, fine. I am only interested in pleasing you."

5)TELL GOD YOU ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN PLEASING HIM
we have no one to be loyal to but Him

6)GET A THREE RING BINDER WITH POCKETED SUBJECT DIVIDERS
this is better than a notebook, as it is easy to rewrite, add, and rearrange papers, the pockets/pouches are good for loose and/or small items

7)MARK THE SUBJECT(S) YOU WILL BE STUDYING IN YOUR BINDER
some of mine are; "Did Jesus have a beginning?"; "144,000"; "Accepting Jesus on the death bed"; "Do we need to be taught by others?"; "Old/New covenant"; "Names of Jesus"

8)OPEN YOUR BIBLE

9)OPEN YOUR PAPER OR ONLINE INTERLINEAR
this is necessary for examining the Greek or Hebrew word in question

10)OPEN YOUR PAPER OR ONLINE GREEK/HEBREW DICTIONARY
this is necessary for examining the Greek or Hebrew word definitions for better understanding of a words meaning and translation

11)ASK GOD TO SHOW YOU HIS TRUTH

12)BEGIN TRACKING YOUR SCRIPTURES;
you will need to refer back to these frequently to remember what you are learning, they are also your references when sharing what you have learned with others.

13)BE WILLING TO INVEST TIME INTO YOUR QUEST
this is an ongoing commitment; Jer. 30:21 "...for who is he who will devote himself to be close to me?' declares the LORD."



So, what is the fate of the old covenant keepers? My understanding at this time is: Without repentance;

• alienated from Christ and thus,

• do not receive the Holy Spirit, the deposit, the guarantee of inheritance,

• not an heir with Christ

• not the Bride of Christ,

• destiny?...the pit.

With repentance;

• not the bride of Christ, and if not the Bride...

• destiny?...second resurrection...

• ... so where is your place in the Kingdom as one who is not part of the Bride?

I am interested in truth so, if anyone has any other insight on this subject, I would be happy to examine it if you would like to add something or if you feel I have overlooked something, or...

Herbert W. Armstrong: End-Time Elijah?

p.26 of 2008 GFW (emphasis mine):

"One of the harshest realities people can face is to learn that they have been lied to about their religious beliefs--that they have been deceived. This is one of the most difficult barriers in life to break. People instinctively defend their beliefs because they are foundational to their entire outlook on life--the core of their decision making process in all matters of life.
Lying--deception--is one of the most refined character flaws of mankind."

Well, I do agree with that.
The problem with protecting something because it is a longstanding thing means you are sacrificing truth. I have said it before, I say it again; Why why why, would you sacrifice truth for a longstanding, time-invested lie?

Herbert didn't have truth. He was a sinful man who knowingly continued, for ten long years, in a very disgusting sin. He did not understand covenants, he didn't understand the Bible, and he plagiarized the large majority of his literature.
 
So many of the splinter groups proudly proclaim that they still teach the teachings of Herbert. Well... how about the teachings of Jesus? The teachings of the Bible?
 
You know you don't need to follow ANYONE but Jesus. You know you need to go to Him for the Word. You know you need to go to Him for the truth.


It is said that Herbert was the "End-Time Elijah." The problem is;
Elijah was a PROPHET.
1 Kings 18:36 "... the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed..."


But when calling people on Herbert's failed prophesies, we hear the patented excuse;
"Herbert's 'predictions' were wrong, because he wasn't a prophet, he was an apostle!"

Well, you can't have it both ways - He was either the end-time Elijah or he was an apostle. One, or the other. Not both.
It is not possible to be the end-time-Elijah, and NOT be a prophet! If he's not a prophet, he's not an Elijah. This is simple logic. Simple reasoning.

Let's see what the Bible says;

Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.


People tend to hear only that which supports their own ideas and ignore contradictory evidence; in psychology, this is known as confirmation bias.

If you don't believe anything on this blog, it is a tell. In other words; I, therefore, know that you actually did not take out your Bible and study the information or ask God for guidance in your search. If you did, then you are guilty of the previous paragraph and really have no interest in the truth, rather, your interest is in protecting what you think to be true.

You know what I find interesting? And this is quite telling; I have noticed a pattern in people. Setting aside Christianity and looking at life in general, this is what I see- Some people have a particular trait; they want to be the best person they can be. I don't mean the best at their job or whatever, I mean the best Mom or Dad they can be, or the best spouse they can be, or the best friend they can be, etc. and therefore they are honest with themselves. They don't defend or deny when they are wrong about who said "I will fight no more forever" or make excuses when they turned right when they should have turned left, or deny the outcome of a scientific experiment or study. Why? Because they know that if they make excuses or deny the mistake, they cannot truly learn, they cannot grow, and if they cannot grow or learn, they cannot become the person they wish to be.

How about you? Are you the person who denies or defends a mistake? Or do you admit and say "Wow, I could have sworn it was (whatever), Hmm, you learn something everyday!" This is the way to growth. If you are the person who denies and makes excuses, you are less interested in truth and more interested in pride, saving face, etc.

If you are the individual who is honest with yourself, then you are honest in all aspects in your life, unless you have some area you've not become aware of yet. This means you are honest in you study of God's word as well. Why? Because you want truth. You don't want to delude yourself. You're not interested in living lies or living in the dark. You get no joy out of a game when your opponent lets you win, because you know it's not a win. There are some, however, who will delude themselves and say "I won!" and deny that they were given the win. They don't care. They don't mind living the lie.

With this type of individual, how do you think Bible study would go for them? Will they be in search of, interested in, truth, or will they also delude their self in this most important aspect of their life? Will this person be more interested in pride, saving face, etc. thus, living a lie and remaining in the dark?

Personally, regardless of the aspect of life; Christianity or any other aspect aside from Christianity, scientific or personal, I don't understand how or why an individual would be willing to or could live like that. I simply cannot relate. Never, would I want to live a lie in any aspect of my life.
Surely, you don't either.

Your instructor can tell you the result of an equation, and if you are lazy and truly don't care, you will accept the information as fact, after all, she is the instructor. However, if you are not lazy, and you do care, you will not take the instructors word for it, but you will work out the equation and prove it to yourself!
Surely, this is you.

What Is The Time Table For Proof?

You astound me Ron.

You astound me with the silly things you say...
saying people want proof - like it's such a ridiculous thing to require proof, when, otherwise, anyone could come forward and claim to be a prophet of God and lead God's children, by the nose, anywhere they so choose.

What are you trying to tell your followers when you say to them 'people want PROOF'? Of Course we want proof. We want the proof you said would come. That is how a prophet is proved true or false.


It has all fallen flat on it's face. I can imagine you and your crew scanning the news and the internet daily, grasping at straws, "Here's something! This could be something! Look! There was a flood!" and in the meantime; y ou pretend that God is revealing things to you a little at a time and say, that's why things have not gone as expected. But God is no liar. If He had given you prophesies, they most definitely would have come to pass when He said and just as He said, but such is not the case.

I ask you; ...How are we supposed to be woke up if we can't see ANYTHING? What kind of wake up call is invisible?

You claim God told you the Thunders were going to happen.
You claim God told you the Tribulation was going to happen.
Where is the specific proof that you, Ron, said would come?
We are in day 53 of the alleged tribulation, yet the world is unaware of this. The world at large is unaware of Ron and Laura Weinland. The Bible tells us the two witnesses witness, but there has been no witnessing from Laura at all. Apparently she is one of the two witnesses in name only, and as far as you witnessing... not really witnessing at all...just damage control sermons. This doesn't resemble the Bible at all.

Did Moses go before Pharaoh, tell him what would happen, and then stand by and look like an fool because NOTHING happened like he said God had told him?
Of course not. Because God WAS talking to Moses.
When God said something would happen, IT HAPPENED!!
Yet... here we are... listening to you assuring people even though Nothing happened as you said GOD said it would.
Here you are, taking back EVERYTHING you CLAIMED in your book!
All the stuff that you said was SUPPOSED to PROVE to everyone that you are a PROPHET.

You say silly things like; the critics want to see a nuke as proof.
It's not ABOUT what anybody WANTS to see! Nobody wants to see nukes go off anywhere, it's about waiting for the proof you said would come, the proof of who you say you are. YOU are the one who made the claim about nukes. We didn't.

Are we a sinful people because we trust Deut. 18:22 & Rev. 2:2 and look for the proof or lack thereof?
Deut. 18:22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Rev. 2:2 "...I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."

Ron, you simply cannot claim to be a prophet of God and expect people to believe you without proof, and then pretend to put curses on those who have discovered you to be false.

You said there would be PROOF and THAT is what people want to see Ron.
But there is no proof. You dance and dodge and say ridiculous things such as we just want to see calamity, or that we are hating God by accusing you of being a false prophet! You say these ridiculous things because we call you on your words. Because we expect you to be true to your word.
You DID say you are true to your word...so, be true to your word.


YOU SAID SPECIFIC THINGS WOULD HAPPEN AND THEY... HAVEN'T ... HAPPENED! And there you stand telling everyone God has changed his mind. You said you would step down by Pentecost if there was no clear proof, and then you go back on your word despite the fact that you said you are true to your word.


SINCE WHEN DOES GOD SEND A PROPHET WITH A MESSAGE AND THEN NOT DELIVER?

You say the Tribulation didn't start the way we conjured up in our heads, but the only picture we had in our heads is the one you PUT there with your claims, spelled out in black and white in your book.

You tell us it's not what you thought. That's because you are not God's prophet.

You tell us you're not a fortune teller. No, you're not. But you have told us in your book the things that are to befall us in our future, as allegedly told to you by God.
And here is a neat little trick: ONLY THOSE WHO "GOD CALLS" AND "OPENS THERE EYES/MINDS" can "see." Well, as in the Emperor's New Clothes, no one is about to step forward and admit they can't see the 'fine new clothing he is wearing' and be declared a fool. No worry for the little children though, the small child is not concerned with others thinking him a fool, but speaks the truth; "The king is NAKED!"

Excuse me... but... how many prophets delivered GOD'S MESSAGE OF CHASTISEMENT, and then told the people that they're receiving an invisible punishment? That is the goofiest thing I've ever heard.

People... I can tell you right now, we will ALWAYS be waiting see the PROOFS THAT RON SAID WOULD COME, right Ron? The proof that YOU..ARE..WHO..YOU..SAY..YOU..ARE.

Well we've been waiting a long time.

The 6th seal came and went; that is - The 7 thunders came and went, or should I say NEVER came; keep in mind the alleged, first thunder was 9/11. The whole world new of it, and although the remaining thunders were to be be much more pronounced than the first... there has been nothing more pronounced than 9/11, has there? and the time of the thunders have gone. The beginning of the tribulation came and went, we are now, as of June 9th, in day 53. Day 45 of your "45 to 90 days" has come and gone, and NONE of your PROOFS have come. Pentecost has come and gone......


You simply cannot believe someone's claim to be a prophet of God without proof. That would not only be foolish, but dangerous as well.
How many chances will you give a man before you finally conclude that he has not been sent to you by God? How long will you continue to follow a man whose "prophesies" have not come to pass? How long will you permit a false teacher to stand between you and God? How much longer will you allow yourself to be led astray?
And, yes, if he is a false prophet , he is a false teacher meaning you have been led astray.

You must stop making the excuse that they are 'only human' or 'they're not perfect', because we ALL know that. We all know this of all God's servants. The difference is; The 'imperfect', 'only human' prophets that God chose, were actually His prophets. We know this because the things they told people that God had said actually happened. Are you really so willing to cling to Ron's message over that of God's? Are you really so sure that he is telling you the truth?

Let me ask you; If you were to treat this like college, and be tested, could you answer all the questions on the test? Do you know Ron's book, 2008 GFW, well enough to answer questions posed to you? Do you know it well enough to be aware of contradictions between what he says in his book and what he says in sermons? I can tell you right now; if you are not aware of any contradictions, you do not know his book. And making excuses for these contradictions is a dangerous and scary thing to do, especially since you have had no proof of his claims.

Don't be so easily fooled by claims of earthquakes or by disasters in countries that have nothing to do with the prophesies that Ron made, or by thinking that because the Pope hoped that the victims may find 'forgiveness' for the perpetrators, that he is being controlled by Satan. For crying out loud. Where is the scripture where Jesus said forgiveness of sins was a sin?! How are you so easily fooled? Did Jesus not say we cannot be forgiven our sins if we cannot forgive others of their sins against us? (Mt.6:14-15, Mk. 11:25). Jesus Himself was tortured to death, tortured to the point of being so disfigured beyond that of any man and His form marred beyond human likeness (Is. 52:14) He could count all His bones (Ps. 22:17) They pulled out His beard (Is. 50:6)... yet, what did He say? Forgive them Father, they don't know what they are doing. Was it evil to ask the Father to forgive the people who committed this heinous crime against His Son?

If a man is proven false, why would anyone choose to follow that organization? Why in the world would anyone want to continue on in the teachings of a false teacher? Would not everyone expect the entire organization to be dissolved? What does it matter that the one giving the sermons has changed? That is the only thing that will have changed. Why would you continue on in his house? Of course, you wouldn't, because you're too smart for that. Besides, you know you know we don't need a man to follow, because you know we follow Christ Jesus and you know that each believer makes up the church, and you know that Jesus said we would receive the Counselor who will teach us all things.

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Mat. 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!