tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post42074120955883404..comments2024-03-28T09:59:14.226-04:00Comments on AS BEREANS DID: All Systems Are 'Go'!Marthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12438486498450616814noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-40069642884315586242023-12-27T20:44:42.949-05:002023-12-27T20:44:42.949-05:00I have never been truly happy with how this post w...I have never been truly happy with how this post was written. It was too much, too long, too confusing. I keep tinkering on it. I just made a few changes for readability, and to fix a broken link, and I hope this is the end of it. xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-7460701583343034332010-05-27T11:01:55.997-04:002010-05-27T11:01:55.997-04:00How long is a "generation" according to ...How long is a "generation" according to WCG?<br />We have an answer!<br /><br />According to the <a href="http://www.herbert-armstrong.org/Church%20of%20God%20News/COG%20News%20Chicago%201963%20(Vol%2002%20Iss%2008)%20Aug.pdf" rel="nofollow">"Church of God News", Chicago-Midwest edition, August 1963, volume 2 Issue 8</a>, page 3, in an article entitled "'These Are the Last Days' States evangelist Cole" written by Wilbur Ball:<br /><br />"A generation is considered to be 35 to 40 years."xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-61266626076887101252009-08-07T12:42:45.358-04:002009-08-07T12:42:45.358-04:00redfox712,
I agree that the 2012 date is inspired...redfox712,<br /><br />I agree that the 2012 date is inspired by the Mayan calendar, which is the first thing that should give one pause. The Mayans were a pagan culture, why would God reveal anything to them? Jesus wouldn’t reveal the date to His own followers, for goodness sake! Not to mention the Mayans were making no such claims as these false teachers are making these days. <br /><br />Interestingly, some of these teachers are using numerology to justify their claim that God has shown them how to figure out when Jesus will return; they have all sorts of mathematical calculations using both the time frames given for end times and other events. <br /><br />And people are BEDAZZLED by this. <br /><br />They’re so impressed by these teachers, and feel so special that God showed them something no one else knows that even when other dates given by these teachers have failed they can’t see this for what it is; false prophecies.angelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-18163822627448699642009-08-07T05:53:55.141-04:002009-08-07T05:53:55.141-04:00angel said...
"there are several false teach...angel said...<br /><br />"there are several false teachers today predicting Christs' return in 2012. Coincidence? Or is there some connection?"<br /><br />As far as I know this 2012 doomsday prophecy is inspired by the fact that some sort of Mayan calendar cycle will end on that date. <br /><br />As a Christian I see no reason why would I give any consideration to what they say on this matter. My answer would still be the same if I was Muslim, Jewish, or Atheist. That's even assuming that the Mayans actually expected an apocalyptic. Some believers seem to say that 2012 will a new awakening, not an apocalypse.<br /><br />You can read the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_doomsday_prediction" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia article here</a>.redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/16199948371019677707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-65916481265636177312009-08-07T05:51:14.646-04:002009-08-07T05:51:14.646-04:00xHWA,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is muc...xHWA,<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is much appreciated. <br /><br />I saw that video of the ILFP Ronald Weinland. It really depressed me when I saw it. <br /><br />I knew about him and the many false prophecies he made. But I only read of him from the outside. That video was the first time I saw it from from the believer's perspective. It was the first time I fully realized that people actually believe him. So it was very disheartening for me.<br /><br />Hence why people need to read <a href="http://ronaldweinland.info/" rel="nofollow">the facts about him</a> so they will not be fooled by such propaganda. <br /><br />As for HWA's pre-January 7, 1934 broadcasts, if I recall correctly, what HWA broadcast was simply a fifteen minute broadcast to fill up some vacant air time. It was not packaged as an actual scheduled radio program till January 7, 1934.redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/16199948371019677707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-76661254052343851422009-08-05T08:40:25.251-04:002009-08-05T08:40:25.251-04:00"You must have read the NEW testament, withou..."You must have read the NEW testament, without someone looking over your shoulder explaining what it really means."<br /><br />lol How did you guess??! ;DxHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-21804585978860693872009-08-04T23:34:00.518-04:002009-08-04T23:34:00.518-04:00I thought I had joy, but now I know what joy from ...<i>I thought I had joy, but now I know what joy from the Spirit is</i><br /><br />You must have read the NEW testament, without someone looking over your shoulder explaining what it <b>really</b> means.jack635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-51439711697069128522009-08-04T12:46:54.809-04:002009-08-04T12:46:54.809-04:00"When we first came into contact with the Wor..."When we first came into contact with the Worldwide Church of God in 1983, we were unaware of the scandalous receivership, the ousting of Garner Ted, and the failed prophecy of 1975 (the year Christ was to return). Many had left, and we were the beginning of the influx of new recruits who were oblivious to the organization's shady past."<br /><br />By Lindsey<br />"<a href="http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/dee/back/petra.htm" rel="nofollow">Memories About Petra</a>"<br />Exit & Support Network<br />April 11, 2004xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-86476950125413165982009-08-04T11:43:08.894-04:002009-08-04T11:43:08.894-04:00Got that previous quote from an article link on Re...Got that previous quote from an article link on <a href="http://livingarmstrongism.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Red Fox's blog</a>. <br /><br />That link is to this terrific article on E&SN:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/dates.htm#1985" rel="nofollow">Did Herbert Armstrong Set Dates?</a>xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-84091007550444091562009-08-04T11:40:18.749-04:002009-08-04T11:40:18.749-04:00"When one claims that he has been ordained of..."When one claims that he has been ordained of God, baptized by Jesus Christ...and dares to tell in specific, point-by point, and in detailed order, the events that are to occur, the real meaning of the mysterious books of prophecy...he ought not to have made predictions which have never come to pass. ... And if he is God's true prophet for these times, he should never have made such predictions as have miserably failed." (Radio Church of God Vs. Church of God, 7th Day - John Kiez. Quoted from p. 211 of Armstrongism: <a href="http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/books.htm#Armstrongism:_Religion_or_Rip-Off" rel="nofollow">Religion or Rip-Off? An Exposé of the Armstrong Modus Operandi</a>)xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-8648016597748871032009-08-04T08:53:30.364-04:002009-08-04T08:53:30.364-04:00RedFox,
Thanks! I appreciate your kind words.
&q...RedFox,<br /><br />Thanks! I appreciate your kind words.<br /><br />"Furthermore HWA actually started broadcasting on October 9, 1933."<br /><br />That was one year to the day after my dad was born. That makes me the end-time Eleazar!!<br />*joking*<br /><br />Thanks for that date. I was searching for that (and a couple other dates - like how long did the Reader's Digest campaign last) but gave up.<br /><br />"Someone really should have asked him why the regularization of the program should be so important and not the first radio broadcast? (But if he did that then the patterns would fall apart.)"<br />I guess you answered your own question! :-)<br /><br />HWA said, "the first week in January, (1934), this program went on the air"<br /><br />I wonder if the program that went on the air in October 1933 was named something different? He sure made it appear as if the very first airing of any radio program AT ALL was on January 7, 1934. Also, I was under the impression before HWA was let go from the COG7 he already had plans on starting a radio ministry. <br /><br />I suppose I shouldn't bother asking these things, you already answered as best as it can be answered - "the patterns would fall apart."<br /><br />"It is very strange that the COGs' distant cousins, the Jehovah's Witnesses, also became fixated on the same date, 1975."<br /><br />It is odd. I understand they had a rapid-fire series of dates in the 1900's that they declared to be the end.<br /><br />"As far as I can see the Watchtower only became fixated on that date in 1966, after HWA & Co. had earlier set up their prophetic narrative."<br /><br />For years I thought it was the other way around, that the JWs got it first. This study proved to me that was not the case.<br /><br />"So if there was plagiarism then the Watchtower stole this date from HWA."<br /><br />Now wouldn't THAT be a fine kettle of fish! HWA, the great plagiarist, having his test answers copied.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-79750291580962930962009-08-04T08:38:18.473-04:002009-08-04T08:38:18.473-04:00Seeker - "Of course this is implemented by in...Seeker - "Of course this is implemented by informing those members still in good standing, that those who were expelled are controlled by Satan and were never truly members. Warning them, "Have NO contact with them. They'll only try to deceive you and lure you away from God's 'one true church!'"<br /><br />Amen to that! Of course many people in the more liberal COGs will still venture to talk to a former member, the official Armstrong teaching is to shun the people who leave.<br /><br />I've always thought it was odd that "holding on to what you had received from the beginning" really meant "from the beginning of your time with Armstrongism", not "from when Christ died and was resurrected and delivered the New Covenant in His blood."<br /><br />The darkness always hates the light. The light shines in and hurts its eyes, and exposes it for what it really is.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-66633272816799156762009-08-04T08:31:50.609-04:002009-08-04T08:31:50.609-04:00jack - "I agree with "devoid of joy"...jack - "I agree with "devoid of joy". Yet they accuse those who believe the words of Jesus as being miserably unhappy."<br /><br />True that! I had no idea what joy was until I personally felt it after accepting grace. I thought I had joy, but now I know what joy from the Spirit is and I can say with finality.. I had NO IDEA!xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-59411483345144769442009-08-04T00:11:24.302-04:002009-08-04T00:11:24.302-04:00Hearing the question posed as to whether what HWA ...Hearing the question posed as to whether what HWA was teaching was influenced by the JW's teachings because they are similar reminded me of how there are several false teachers today predicting Christs' return in 2012. Coincidence? Or is there some connection?<br /><br />The Bible speaks of doctrines of demons; maybe they're the ones influencing these groups/teachers.<br /><br />What completely blows my mind is how unafraid these men are to say they are speaking for God and yet what they say does not come to pass! And the other side of the coin is just as bad; the people who are afraid to walk away from these false prophets when God has clearly told us not to fear such men. <br /><br />One of the reasons I hold so tightly to scripture is because I see what can happen when people want to know MORE than what the Bible tells us and are willing to put it aside in order to listen to someone who's saying something they like. <br /><br />Scary.angelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-30080051833729063462009-08-03T21:56:26.707-04:002009-08-03T21:56:26.707-04:00Great post, xHWA. This is very good. It truly capt...Great post, xHWA. This is very good. It truly captures just how convoluted the false reasoning behind 1975 was. <br /><br />Furthermore HWA actually started broadcasting on October 9, 1933. However he did not get his own regular radio program till January 7, 1934. Someone really should have asked him why the regularization of the program should be so important and not the first radio broadcast? (But if he did that then the patterns would fall apart.)<br /><br />It is very strange that the COGs' distant cousins, the Jehovah's Witnesses, also became fixated on the same date, 1975. I have thought about this strange connection myself. As far as I can see the Watchtower only became fixated on that date in 1966, after HWA & Co. had earlier set up their prophetic narrative. So if there was plagiarism then the Watchtower stole this date from HWA. <br /><br />We also need to keep in mind that since around the late 1940s/early 1950s the JWs taught that Armageddon had to come before the "Generation of 1914" passed away. The Watchtower gave up on this idea in 1995 and "that generation" has lost any chronological aspect to it. <br /><br />However the similarities are indeed truly remarkable. How can they be so similar without some sort of influence? Did the Armstrongs' wide radio reach attract so many listeners that they influenced the Watchtower indirectly, without anyone fully what was happening? In that Watchtower video the speaker specifically stated that they were then approaching the end of 6000 years of human history. HWA & Co. also had the very same belief that 1975 marked the end of 6000 years.<br /><br />They confidently dated the Great Flood to 2370-2369 BC on the simple assumption that 1975 marks 6000 years from the creation of Adam. <br /><br />Even today, in LCG, much emphasis is placed on the end of 6000 years which is generally assumed to be when Christ come back. (Or he might come back a bit sooner.) Their Bible Study Course pointed to 2017 as the end of the 6000 years. <br /><br />The 1975 connection is a fascinating topic. I wish there was hard evidence to settle this question one way or another.redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/16199948371019677707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-37789291501942926622009-08-03T21:29:55.140-04:002009-08-03T21:29:55.140-04:00Have NO contact with them
Lest you discover the t...<i>Have NO contact with them</i><br /><br />Lest you discover the truth and be set free also.<br /><br />I agree with "devoid of joy". Yet they accuse those who believe the words of Jesus as being miserably unhappy.<br /><br />Count is all joy when men curse you and revile you and say all manner of evil against you, for great is your reward in heaven.<br /><br />I don't know if that is exactly how it is written, but it is certainly fitting for when RW rants against those who are exposing his lies.jack635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-50881901280908419072009-08-03T21:13:18.590-04:002009-08-03T21:13:18.590-04:00jack635 said...
"The WCG was a corporate de...jack635 said... <br /><br /><i>"The WCG was a corporate department store. If a customer started disturbing the floor, security would escort them out of the store and they would not be welcome back.<br /><br />Can't have a disatisfied customer disturbing the other customers' shopping experience."</i><br /><br />That would be bad for business... real bad.<br /><br />Of course this is implemented by <i>informing</i> those members still in <i>good standing</i>, that those who were expelled are controlled by Satan and were never truly members. Warning them, "Have NO contact with them. They'll only try to deceive you and lure you away from God's "one true church!""<br /><br />When, in truth, they had been freed from the Old Covenant and so <i>very</i> many lies, into joy in Christ Jesus and His New Covenant!Seeker Of Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974355570014495622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-29475944466181904882009-08-03T20:49:15.208-04:002009-08-03T20:49:15.208-04:00jack635 said...
"HWA was a fearmonger, a...jack635 said...<br /><br /> <i>"HWA was a fearmonger, and he taught his diciples to also become fearmongers."</i><br /><br />No doubt. Fear is their foundation. Scare them, and make them believe their safety is in your church... then reel them in.<br />Money in the bank.<br /><br />There is JOY in Christ Jesus, but there's no joy in an Armstrongist's message. <br /><br />They're condescending and filled with mockery and self-righteousness about how the world's church's have it all wrong and how <b>blessed</b> "we" are to be so <b>special</b>; catastrophe and chastisement, even castigation; not to mention backpedaling, as well... but devoid of joy.<br /><br />Praise God for there is joy in His New Covenant!Seeker Of Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974355570014495622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-80127247677061810462009-08-03T16:25:15.019-04:002009-08-03T16:25:15.019-04:00HWA started out in the advertising world. Using t...HWA started out in the advertising world. Using those skills, he built a religion corporation. He sold religion! It thrived and from what I know, it was modeled after any large corporation. As with large corporate companies, they do not give a hoot about the customer, only the bottom line. <br /><br />The WCG was a corporate department store. If a customer started disturbing the floor, security would escort them out of the store and they would not be welcome back.<br /><br />Can't have a disatisfied customer disturbing the other customers' shopping experience.jack635https://www.blogger.com/profile/08419045741839152708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-76930162622866355172009-08-03T16:11:01.397-04:002009-08-03T16:11:01.397-04:00It was the realization that Ron Weinland doesn'...It was the realization that Ron Weinland doesn't do anything HWA didn't do first that opened my mind to accept that HWA was not inspired by God. If I call Ron a false prophet, then how can I not say the same of HWA? And if those things are excused in HWA's case, they must also be excused in Ron's case.<br /><br />So, it's an important point that you touch on.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-54251666939700616932009-08-03T15:54:05.179-04:002009-08-03T15:54:05.179-04:00That's quite right, Bob. It doesn't matter...That's quite right, Bob. It doesn't matter if we call him a prophet or not... or a "profit" for that matter. Was God the source of those prophecies is what counts. <br /><br />I have had discussions with many people. Everyone still in the COGs did not accept something was amiss until they saw the quotes about how the message was from God, on God's authority, and how he stuck his neck out. He practically rephrased Deuteronomy 18:20-22 in that last one.<br />Proof is in the puddin'. He was speaking from his mind, not God's. And I ask the believers this question:<br />"If he was so wrong about his prophecies, what else was he wrong about?"xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-26603274997263624552009-08-03T15:39:28.245-04:002009-08-03T15:39:28.245-04:00HWA was a fearmonger, and he taught his diciples t...HWA was a fearmonger, and he taught his diciples to also become fearmongers. I can imagine Ronald Weinland say these very words:<br /><br />"But all these things, as Jesus explained, are to be only the beginning of our time of national trouble. "Once we are weakened by starvation, disease and the resulting calamitous economic depression, the Ten-Nation European Colossus will suddenly strike with hydrogen bombs that shall destroy our cities and our centers of industrial and military production!" <br />Herbert W. Armstrong, 1975 In Prophecy, p. 13 <br /><br />He has said something along the same lines. There are many others besides RW that are fearmongers and moneycounters.jack635https://www.blogger.com/profile/08419045741839152708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-61322426974272168142009-08-03T15:37:25.429-04:002009-08-03T15:37:25.429-04:00I should link to this Painful Truth article entitl...I should link to this Painful Truth article entitled "<a href="http://www.hwarmstrong.com/19-year-cycle.htm" rel="nofollow">How Herbert W. Armstrong Used 1972 to Finance His Building Projects</a>" that I think you will find informational.<br /><br />Many of us have already read it. Some of us have not. Either way, here it is for your ease of navigation.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-57317867539478095432009-08-03T15:28:17.705-04:002009-08-03T15:28:17.705-04:00Whether or not he accepted or repudiated the label...Whether or not he accepted or repudiated the label "prophet" is totally irrelevant. That is simply a label. The greater question is whether HWA was truly inspired by God, or whether he attributed his own allegedly "inspired" guesses to God, and taught them as part of his gospel message. Many of us can discern the reality in 20-20 hindsight. We know that HWA faked the gift of prophecy, and his successors have still not learned not to do this!<br /><br />I can see and understand how someone living in WWII could read Bible prophecy and assume that the Roman Empire was being reconstituted, some of it reluctantly and by conquest. But it boggles the mind that someone could miss the simple truth that Israel did not yet exist as a nation, and therefore the end time prophecies could not as yet be fulfilled as outlined in Daniel and Revelation. HWA was undaunted by the Allied victory, and persisted in proclaiming that Hitler was alive and in hiding in Argentina well into the '50s and early '60s.<br /><br />He came up with a better, although still flawed, campaign via 1975 in Prophecy. But, it was still based on human conjecture regarding British Israelism, a timeline which kicked into gear in 1948 with the birth of Israel, and the notion that the USA was a nation of Christians falsely so-called.<br /><br />We know today that the USA was founded on genuine Christian principles, by Christians (except for one or two prominent atheists and or deists), and has been the breadbasket for the entire world and the bastion from which Christianity has been proclaimed. Arguably, some of those Christian precepts have been diminished, but we have hardly degenerated into conditions similar to Sodom and Gomorrah as of yet. <br /><br />By this point, according to HWA's message, we monogamous heterosexuals probably shouldn't even be able to leave our homes without locking chastity belts and iron muzzles on our faces. Yet, conditions are still conducive to good people being able to raise happy and blessed Christian families!<br /><br />BBByker Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5528158760608808912.post-8203848634698238962009-08-03T14:23:23.064-04:002009-08-03T14:23:23.064-04:00"Yet, in our human zeal and enthusiasm for ge..."Yet, in our human zeal and enthusiasm for getting this greatest mission on earth done, we have a few times come close to it or appeared to -- and that we deeply regret."<br />-HWA<br /><br />I remember when I was a student, and if the powers that be felt you had done something wrong, and if you cited some statement made by a minister or teacher, etc. and used the word "we" in that context, their favorite response to that was to say "Who's "we"? Do you have a "mouse" in your pocket?"<br /><br />Sometimes the word "mouse" was something else that would not be appropriate to quote here or anywhere else for that matter, but to give you a hint, it was related to scatology.<br /><br />And so here's HWA resorting to "we" when it comes to an error being made; a "simple misunderstanding." The mercy he calls for was rarely, if ever, extended by him and his minions when the shoe was on the other foot.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18122238110750804356noreply@blogger.com