Tuesday, January 19, 2010

The Plain Truth About the End-Time Elijah

“ANKARA, Turkey – The Turkish man who shot Pope John Paul II nearly 29 years ago emerged from prison Monday, declared himself a messenger from God… ’I will meet you in the next three days,’ Agca said. ‘In the name of God Almighty, I proclaim the end of the world in this century. All the world will be destroyed, every human being will die. I am not God, I am not son of God, I am Christ eternal.’”
-Fraser, Suzan, “Pope John Paul II gunman released from prison”, Yahoo News, 1-18-2010

INTRODUCTION ----------

This is part 2 of a 2 part post regarding the end-time Elijah. [You will find part 1 here.]
In the last post I went over the absurdity of claiming oneself to be a fulfillment of prophecy. In this part I would like to look more closely at the verses involved with the "Elijah to come", and get a better idea about what a butchery of scripture this nonsense is.
I left off from part 1 with this verse:

(DEU. 18: 22) 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 18 is so important to keep in mind at times like this since it makes the gravity of the situation abundantly clear. This is no joking matter. We have people who have elevate themselves to titles and offices and commissions, supposedly in service to God, who think they are somehow exempt from the words of the Bible. Ron Weinland is only one of many.

But maybe there are some who think this is a light matter; being a false prophet is not a big sin. Hey, it’s not like they tried to kill the Pope, right? I appeal to such a one to spend time dealing with the minds of people who have been crushed under the weight of these false prophets. When these precious souls realize the lies, when they see their faith misplaced, when they see the emptiness of all the work and the tithes and the promises, when they see the wasted years, when the pointlessness of the broken relationships dawns on them, when the false god they were sold evaporates and they have no means of trusting the true God anymore, let alone trusting other people, and they feel ashamed and betrayed and even personally guilty (although it’s not their fault) - take a walk in their shoes; shoes I have been in - then there will be no doubt how grave a thing this is.

(LUKE 17: 1-2) 1 Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses [snares, stumbling blocks, occasions to fall] should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

God thinks this is a subject of grave importance. I must agree completely.

We still need to see what “this thing” is, I guess. Let’s start at the beginning.

ELIJAH IN SCRIPTURE ----------

(MAL. 4: 5-6) 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 6 And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

Malachi states that Elijah the prophet will come. It doesn’t say Ron Weinland will come. There are several groups who believe that the original Elijah the Tishbite will literally be resurrected before the second coming. If you take the prophecy literally and alone, it would appear this can be fulfilled by none else. Good thing we have more than just this one verse to help us understand. The angel Gabriel is sent to explain this prophecy to us. He speaks to Zacharias and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist.

(LUK. 1: 17) 17 He [John the Baptist] will also go before Him [Jesus Christ] in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Gabriel speaks of nothing less than the fulfillment of Malachi 4. The modern Elijahs all believe they know better than Gabriel – who stands in the presence of God. But if Gabriel were correct, wouldn’t there be some other evidence to this effect?

(MATT. 11: 14) 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he [John the Baptist] is Elijah who is to come.

At this point, I think a little perspective would help matters. It was a very common teaching that Elijah the Tishbite would arrive before the Messiah’s first coming. The teachers of that day thought they knew the general timing and meaning of the prophecy. Notice that in Matthew 17 and Mark 9, the Apostles ask, “Why do the scribes say…?” We have to keep in mind that the Jewish scholars and teachers had no concept of a second coming. They did not do what Herbert Armstrong did (wrongly), and assign almost every prophecy to a future second-coming of the Messiah. “The day of the Lord” to them was the time of His first coming. The Apostles were with the Messiah, but where was Elijah? I personally feel this is the very reason why the Apostle John began his Gospel speaking of how John the Baptist came first.

Some commentaries would point out that the scribes were using the absence of Elijah as proof that Jesus was not the Christ. Three of the Apostles had witnessed Elijah in a vision but were told not to share this with anyone. John Gill’s Expository extrapolates that to mean the Apostles wanted Jesus to allow them to counter the scribes with this. But Jesus only explained about John the Baptist.

(MATT. 17: 10-13) 10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.”13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

The disciples understood Jesus was talking about John the Baptist. Ron Weinland understands Jesus was talking about Ron Weinland.

Let’s see that once again.

(MARK 9: 11-13) 11 And they asked Him, saying, “Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 12 Then He answered and told them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things. And how is it written concerning the Son of Man, that He must suffer many things and be treated with contempt? 13 But I say to you that Elijah has also come, and they did to him whatever they wished, as it is written of him.”

There you go. Those are all of the verses about the Elijah to come. Surprisingly simple and focused on Christ, are they not?

CONCLUSION ----------

The entire claim of being the end-time Elijah rests on nothing more than the belief that the “day of the Lord” refers to the second coming, and not a span of time that begins at the first coming. That is it. There is no more substance to it than that. Private interpretations regarding timing.
But is that even a good understanding of what "the day of the Lord" is? Have we not read what Peter said in Acts 2:

(ACT 2: 16-21) 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; and they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above and signs in the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Peter said that the "last days" and "the day of the Lord" were already upon them on that very day. Are we to believe that neither Peter nor Gabriel nor Jesus had any idea what they were talking about?
Herbert Armstrong taught us to expect the fulfillment of these things in the future, but we didn't get that from the Bible. The Bible specifically and without confusion states that these things have been fulfilled. So must "the day of the Lord" refer to the second coming? Certainly not.
Many say, "It could be dual in fulfillment." It could be. But isn't that just speculation built on more speculation? It could be, but we have a perfectly fine and Biblical explanation already that doesn't require it to be. No one has to speculate about that. We know it is fulfilled in the past.

Keep in the forefront of your mind that these supposed Elijahs demonstrate a complete lack of ability to understand or predict God’s timing. Who would be surprised that they completely misunderstand this timing as well?

“Lying is the outcome of people being right in their own eyes and stubbornly holding to their own viewpoint, regardless of evidence to the contrary.”
-Ron Weinland, “2008: God’s Final Witness”, p. 27

No man in the entire Bible but John the Baptist is said to fulfill this prophecy. There is no mention of a repeat appearance in Revelation or Daniel. Gabriel announced that it regarded John the Baptist. Jesus – the one who inspired the prophecy - by His own mouth confesses several times that the entire prophecy was fulfilled already by John the Baptist (MATT. 3: 15). The Elijah was to announce the Messiah, and according to the Messiah, all that was written about Him is fulfilled (LUKE 24: 44). John the Baptist IS the end-time Elijah! The Apostles understood and accepted this. Even the scribes, to their credit, wondered about it enough to inquire about it (JOHN 1: 19-23). Yet these modern false prophets say, “No, Jesus isn’t telling it straight. The prophecy is about the second coming… and therefore I am Elijah.” Incredible! The hubris involved in such a thing is off the scale!

PARTING THOUGHTS ----------

None of this comes as any real surprise. False prophets lift themselves up (JAS. 4: 10) to such lofty heights in the sight of everyone, but they fail miserably and they will come to nothing. Because what does God say (MATT. 18: 4)?

I wonder which of these Elijahs will fast for forty days and forty nights? If I were approached by an Elijah, this would be the second thing I would require as proof (the first being humility). It should be no problem whatsoever for Elijah. I recommend everyone demand this of Ron Weinland, and then withhold your tithes until day 41.

The Elijah did come, and the religious leaders knew him not. The religious leaders still do not know. I wonder why? Could it be “I I I I… Me me me me"… ? The following are paraphrases of actual statements made by Ron Weinland:

I am the Elijah/prophet/Apostle/Witness/spokesman/Zerubbabel/John’s Counterpart… I have been given a commission… I have received… I pronounce curses whenever I choose and call down fire and turn water to blood… I chose the fifth thunder… I am important… I am the true minister… Humble yourself and accept me as your minister, teaching you, or you will die… My book is the truth… The miracles are to prove me… Prophecy was hidden so it could reveal me… The seven thunders and the book of Revelation and all prophecy and the whole Bible was reserved to be revealed at this end-time through God’s end-time prophet - me… You will know that I am who I say I am… I am the most formidable prophet God has ever used in all 6,000 years of human history… God magnified me in a way no prophet has ever been magnified before… I exercise great power, more than all other prophets combined….

Me me me me! I I I I! Remind you of anyone else?

(LUKE 18: 11-12) 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

I, I, I. Me, me, me!

That’s not at all how the Elijah was. John the Baptist drew attention to God and not himself. He knew that if only people would listen to Christ, he himself would not be needed at all. He knew he would diminish (JOHN 3: 30), and that didn’t bother him a bit.

This raises an important point. If by some chance there is to be a final fulfillment of this Elijah prophecy, it most certainly will not be fulfilled by a self-aggrandized narcissist who lacks the spirit of Elijah, or the humility of John the Baptist, who was not announced by Gabriel, and who utterly fails to prophesy accurately. These false Elijahs do not match the pattern in any way. Not one way!
When asked if he was Elijah or a prophet, the greatest prophet ever born said "no." Ron Weinland, on the other hand, writes book after book, going on the radio and the Internet and touring across the globe, in order to proclaim that he is both a prophet and Elijah. False prophets call themselves Levites in order to collect tithes, but they refuse to wear the priestly garbs of a Levite. No way on earth would they lower themselves to wear camel’s hair like Elijah and John the Baptist. Ron Weinland also calls himself one of the Two Witnesses, but he has yet to put on sackcloth (REV. 11: 3) - either literally or figuratively! And these men want us to believe in them based on their great swelling words (JUD. 1: 16)?

You don’t need to watch prophecies fail to see that these people are false prophets. I tell you a better way!

(MATT. 7: 15-20) 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

What are his fruits? Did I not relate to you about the broken minds in the wake of Herbert Armstrong, Ron Weinland, Rod Merideth, Gerald Flurry, Harold Smith, etc, etc, etc? If you are one of these, hurt by these deceivers – like I was – I want you to contact the Exit and Support Network right away.

(II PET. 2: 1-3) 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

I want to put the entirety of II Peter 2 here, but for space I will not. I ask that everyone read that chapter now on their own. I’ll move ahead.

(JUD. 1: 10-13) 10But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Big words, no? Not my words, mind you. It’s something important to God when his children are harmed by false prophets and con artists. From the gravity of every verse on this subject, I’d gather God takes it quite seriously. That’s something you would expect a false prophet to take into consideration.

I started this post with Deuteronomy 18: 22. I would like to end with verse 20:

(DEU. 18: 20) 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’

PERSONAL NOTE ----------

I don't want anyone to die. I don't enjoy their end. I simply don't know how they will escape it - only an unprecedented act of mercy by God will do. I don't revel in what they bring on themselves. I pray for them, and I ask everyone of you to pray for them, that they will repent in time and undo what they've done. God have mercy on their souls.

For years I followed these men. I donated to their ministries. I taught what they said was true. I unwittingly aided in the deception and enslavement of minds; precious minds of God-loved souls. I feel compelled to apologize again because these men I once supported have caused so very much harm to so very many people. I tell people over and over that it isn’t their fault that they were deceived. Easier said than done. But I escaped - you can too.
Praise God in the Highest, His mercy has set me free! All things are for His glory.

Maybe you are one of these people who are hurting. If you are anything like me, if you feel pain, guilt, anger, remorse, frustration, if you see the cracks in the Armstrongist system and want out, or even if you have left and simply do not know where to turn, I highly highly suggest that you get in contact with the Exit and Support Network. They have been of immense help to so many. You are not alone!
God bless you and keep you. May His face shine upon you, and bring you peace.


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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.
Acts 17:11
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19 comments:

angel said...

Wow, so simple. Although I've never done a study on this particular subject, I have read thru the Bible several times and didn't remember seeing alot of verses that addressed this; now I see why - there aren't many.

I like the fact that you emphasized the importance of taking Deut. 18 seriously; I'm continually amazed how lightly some treat it, and some even refuse to believe that it means what it literally says at all - I've had people sneeringly tell me I have a wrong understanding taught by "traditional Christianity". Funny, I've always thought of my understanding of it as based on what the Bible says - go figure.

Interestingly, though, when I've pointed out that if they reject the test of a prophet given in Deut. 18 then they have no way to discern a false prophet; they're silent. Wouldn't you think that should tell them something?

xHWA said...

Behold Ron Weinland. He has become death; the destroyer of worlds.

jack635 said...

“Lying is the outcome of people being right in their own eyes and stubbornly holding to their own viewpoint, regardless of evidence to the contrary.”
-Ron Weinland

Convicted by the words of his own mouth.

A true prophet does not seek his own glory. He would not announce that he is a prophet. The people who witnessed his good works would call him a prophet.

Once again, a great post from Bereans blog. I don't see why you could not include all of Peter. It's good reading. You've got lots of free space to copy and paste. No one is going to sue you.

Keep up the good work. And God bless you for posting the good news that came out of Jesus' mouth.

The light shines in the darkness...

Luc said...

That is the big concern. This thing that is foolishness to those who scoff at salvation through simple belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. That is, can a false prophet precipitate the loss of a followers salvation?

The Koran has a statement that I had thought to myself before I knew it was written there. "If you kill a man, it's as if you had killed the whole world." To you and me, the world ends when we do.

It is quite possible, xHWA, you are not indulging in hyperbole saying:"He (the false prophet) has become death; the destroyer of worlds."

Seeker Of Truth said...

" I am not God, I am not son of God, I am Christ eternal.”

Now THERE'S something! Heck, Ron just needs to go talk to this guy, Christ, and he can make the time-lines that Ron keeps 'misinterpreting' clear to him!!

Clearly, Ron is as legitimate as this guy is.

angel said...

Have you seen the latest posts on the Weinland Witness website? Citizen X has reversed his position on Ron.

My heart sank as I read them; I think he's sincere, but sincerely wrong.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

xHWA said...

I have not. Will check.

xHWA said...

Unfortunately, you are correct, Angel. He is in the wrong direction.

He quotes Deuteronomy 18:22 out of context and out of order and redefines "presumptuous". He says this:
"This verse states that if the thing which was prophecied does not happen * BUT ** he spoke the prophecy presumptuously, then *** thou shall not be afraid of him (in other words, he would have to be deemed a false prophet)."

* Notice anything missing? Where is "that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken"? That oversight alone makes the statement wholly incorrect.
** It says "but" not "and". And it only says "but" in the KJV.
*** It does not say "then" at all. Rewriting the Bible? I hope not!

First, we must start with verse 20, which is precisely why I ended with verse 20, so it would be most fresh in the mind. Ron Weinland simply declared himself innocent. "I didn't presume." And that is supposed to be that.
But God, in verses 20, gives us two fingerprints of a false and presumptuous statement: 1) a thing He didn't speak, 2) a thing spoken in the name of another god.
Now we go to the logical question.

(DEU. 18: 21) ..."How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?"
God tells us in verse 22, and I relate it to you in the proper order:

1) When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord
2) IF the thing does not come to pass
3) THAT is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously.

--The condition is already met at this point. Things failed to happen, ergo it was not what God has spoken, and it IS presumptuous as well as a false prophecy by God's definition. There is no "but".--

Ron Weinland or Muzicsoulworldly would like to be the ones who determine presumptuousness, and they do it through striving over words or perhaps overruling God via fiat declaration. But God defines presumptuous for us, that is precisely what verses 20-22 are about, and God could not possibly be more clear about this.

Muzicsoulworldly bases their conclusion on 2 things:
1) The King James Version which includes the word "but". (Read it in the NKJV, "but" isn't there. It's not there in the Jewish Publication Society version either, nor the Literal translation, nor...)
2) Reading the conditions out of their proper order.

Here is the order muzicsoulworldly would have us read it in:
1) if a thing doesn't come to pass
2) and the prophet speaks presumptuously
3) then don't be afraid of him

That is not the order the Bible uses. This is not accurate.

One last thing I need to say. The Hebrew word translated "presumptuous" in Deu. 18 (Strong's H2087) has nothing to do with the timing or the source of belief, as muzicsoulworldly attempts to define it in paragraph 4. It means PRIDEFUL! We can torture the language talking about presumptuous versus asumptuous, but the meaning is plain.

I would hope the author is not being deliberately inaccurate. I understand the desire overstretch to defend your teacher (and thus yourself). But when we're actually searching for the honest-to-goodness truth, and everything is supposedly based on truth, one would think that accuracy would be more important than what I see there.

xHWA said...

As a side note, someone please find for me the dictionary definition of "assumptuously" and post it here. I suspect this word is made up because I can't find it anywhere.

xHWA said...

Does "assumptuously" mean "made an assumption"? As in "The end-time Elijah assumed God was talking to him, claimed it was infallibly true, but later learned he was dead wrong, but it's OK because he didn't do it presumptuously"? I fail to see how that makes things any better.

It only comes right back around to the word "presume", which is a synonym of "assume".
The definition of presumptuous is:
"Going beyond what is right or proper; excessively forward." -and-
"characterized by presumption or tending to presume; bold; forward"

I think, of all the things I've ever heard said about Ron Weinland, "presumptuous" is among the most accurate.

angel said...

xHWA,

That was my take on it, too; that they were downplaying the need for the prophecy to come to pass and focusing primarily on whether or not the prophet was “presumptuous” based on their own explanation of what that means.

The first thing that came to my mind was “Private Interpretation”. The text is so clear there’s no need to “re-interpret” it. Both Citizen X and Aaron submitted lengthy explanations for something that is self-explanatory; methinks they do protest too much.

The other thing that caught my attention was their comments regarding Ron basing his prophecy on what the church (WWCG) ALREADY believed. They seem to be excusing his error because his prophecies reflect what they believe God has already revealed to them, via HWA.

xHWA said...

I just want to make this as absolutely, abundantly, and perfectly clear as I can ----

Whether or not someone was "presumptuous" is NOT a condition! It is a result.
God is not asking you if you were being presumptuous - He's telling you.

Ron says he wasn't presumptuous. So what?!? God says he is.
Presumptuous is not a condition of being false.

There are TWO conditions of a false prophet: 1) it leads to other gods [which is dealt with in Deu. 13: 1-3], 2) the Lord did not speak it [which is dealt with in Dey. 18: 22].
That's it. Presumptuous is not a condition, it is a result.

If it was one of these two things, then it was presumptuous and false. NOT, "if it was presumptuous, and it was one of these two things, then it was false."

Ron says it came from God, that means we are in condition 2. So we ask, what is the test if Ron is telling the truth and the Lord really spoke it?
Answer (v. 22): If it comes to pass.

God sometimes allows things to come to pass that are false (see Deu. 13: 1-3). But things spoken in His name do not come to pass when they are false.
A liar can get lucky and make an accurate statement. But the statement was accurate regardless of who spoke it. It's when they get it wrong that matters.

Did what Ron said in the name of the Lord come to pass? No. FAIL! Ergo false & presumptuous.
Presumptuous is a result.

OK? Does that make sense?

Lastly, if all this seems too confusing, or the prediction too far in the future, fall back on Matthew 7: 15-20.

xHWA said...

"They seem to be excusing his error because his prophecies reflect what they believe God has already revealed to them, via HWA."

I completely agree, Angel.

And the same test applies to Herbert Armstrong.

I have done post after post about Herbert Armstrong's failures for this very reason. It was obvious that to disprove Ron Weinland and all of his counterparts at the same time, one need only show what Herbert Armstrong said - because they all base their authority on HWA. Cut the trunk and the whole tree falls (in theory).
Many people get frustrated with me because they ask about Ron Weinland and I answer about Herbert Armstrong. It matters!

When we apply this test to Herbert Armstrong he fails. And not only does he fail, but he fails more miserably than I have ever seen anyone fail before in my life. So, what does that say about this "assumptuousness" [aside from it being a made-up word]?

God bless you, Angel, for bringing these things to our attention so we can look in to them. And may God keep you safe.

Luc said...

Here is Deut 18:22 as translated word for word in the interlinear:
" which he shall speak the prophet in name of Yahwea and not he is becoming the word and not he is coming the word which not he spoke Yahweh
in arrogance spoke he the prophet you shall shrink away from him

The word(h2087:arrogance)translated as presumptuously is here translated more correctly as "in arrogance", debating if the word is presumptuously or assumptuously is moot.

Using English translations to get around the simple idea of a scripture is truly sad business.

Luc said...

Deut18:22 is speaking of arrogance, so I refer you back to Jack's comment as a basis for a more comprehensive test of a prophet's validity.

xHWA said...

I very much appreciate Jack's comment. Everyone should read it.

xHWA said...

Just found this lovely quote. Tell me if you see anything similar between it (written in 1980) and what Ron Weinland is now saying.

"...we were told, this one man (HWA) was far more important
than any one or all of the original apostles, as he was only one
while they were twelve or more. This man was not only "the"
apostle, but also the modern Elijah, Zerubbabel, Moses, and the
principal witness of Revelation, chapter 11!"

-David Robinson, "Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web", p.15

Discuss amongst yourselves.

James Savak said...

OK Ive read parts of this website because seems with this recent Supreme Court decision the time we live in gives impression that we live in a time which may be very close to events described by the prophets of the Bible.

Im not writing to state anyone is the Elijah. But citing Apostle Peter doesn't prove anything about the Elijah prophecy.Obviously Apostle Peter was not correct in thinking it would happen in his lifetime , although elements of the prophecy were fulfilled in his lifetime.

The scripture you quote omits the rest of what Jesus Yeshua the messiah said ...Matt 17: verse 11
" And Jesus answered and said to them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

Please tell me what John the Baptist restored? Of course he fulfilled part of that prophecy according to the words of Jesus but what about restoring "all things?"

What was Jesus referring to ?

Also the book of Malachi 4; verse 6 says ...And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their father....lest I come and smite the Earth with a curse"

That has not yet happened. If it has Im not aware of it . Yet I cant see a more appropriate time THAN NOW for that to happen given the appalling times of disintegration of family life in the world, a complete breakdown of COMMON SENSE in regard to what a family is and the roles of father and mother and children.

James Savak said...

I just read the Whole chapter of Matthew 17 . Its actually very interesting when read in context of the whole chapter. The question of Elijah was prompted by the Apostles after they witnessed a "vision" of Jesus standing with Moses and Elijah, and the hearing the voice of God the Father testifying that Jesus was His son and to "hear him."

Then they asked their question. Maybe its not meant for us to know yet. But its important to ask and to study what the word of God says as to all scriptures referring of a prophesied Elijah herald to announce the messiah and fulfill the restoration of all things and the Malachi 4: 6 prophecy.

I don't think Jesus ever states what He mean by RESTORE ALL THINGS . If He did then someone please provide me with those scriptures

Only God can provide the answers through the Bible