Sunday, April 20, 2008

Do We Need To Be Taught By Others?

Ron Weinland has does an excellent job of isolating his congregation from the truth of the bible.

1) He has told them it's useless to talk to family or friends if they don't believe what he teaches because they will only try to sway their beliefs.
2) He has told them that they can't study at home and expect to grow spiritually.
3) He has told them that they can only grow spiritually on Saturday/Sabbath.
4) And, he has been saying things like; We
know the truth when we hear it! We don't need to look it up in the bible! (This he has said multiple times in various ways, and that's walking dangerous ground).

I'm going to address #2.

In the announcements preceding his '
Press Forward Spiritually', Pt.3 sermon (2/4/06)

He said, & I quote,
"People think they can do things on their own. We have to be taught. That's why God gave us Sabbaths, to be taught by God. We're not on our own, and where two or three are gathered together doesn't mean we can be on our own to study our bibles and SOOOMMMEHOOOOWW grow spiritually!"
Yes, he got loud and drug out that word.


Ron says how much he loves John, so why is he not familiar with, or maybe he just ignores, these verses:

Jn. 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Jn. 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever17 the Spirit of truth.

1Jn.2:26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Paul says, in
1 co. 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

And finally,

Mt. 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Jesus said He is there with you, but Ron says you're on your own? Jesus said He is there with you, but Ron says you can't grow spiritually? RED FLAGS! So, what... Jesus is so powerless that in His presence we are alone and cannot grow spiritually!? And what... God sent Ron to do what Jesus cannot!?


More from Ron:

"...seeing ourself better than what we are. That we can study our own bibles at home by ourselves. Without God feeding us, and we can come through all this. 'It's just God and me and Jesus Christ.' And that goes against what God says. That's disobeying God's law of obedience to the Sabbath. You know just that one thing alone ought to scream out to us. But it hasn't in peoples lives. It's a marvel to me things like this can just continue on."

Just... me & God & Jesus Christ?! The Father & the Son are incapable? Only Ron is qualified?! How is it Ron can do something that the Father & the Son cannot? Am I so ignorant to think, of ALL things, that I could get anywhere, to learn anything, just God and me and Jesus Christ? Have I have misjudged God? If I expect to get anywhere or learn anything, I must listen to Ron? ...since the Father and The Son are so incapable as Ron implies by these statements!

These are outright blatant lies, completely opposite of what Jesus said.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

What you have said in his sermon are exact words from him.
Now you don't believe all that now do you.
Ron said we can't learn on our own we have to be taught, By why is he the only one who can do that job.
i found out i learned more on my own and my new study group. He is just like the Mormons. Do as i say and tell you to think. You won't find it on your own or by reading the bible. Am i close?

Seeker Of Truth said...

Anonymous,

What I am saying is that he says he must do the teaching, that it must be on Saturday, and that his congregation cannot learn on their own. I quoted what he said word for word, then I quoted scripture that says otherwise. The scriptures say we DON'T need anyone to teach us because the Holy Spirit teaches all things. I have learned a lot on my own as well. No. No one needs Ron to teach them.

~Seeker Of Truth~

Weinland Watch said...

The only verse(s) in John that Weinland is completely in love with is the one that goes "be not conformed to this world", the same way Armstrong did. :-(

You are right on about him telling people not to rely on anyone but him: In his 45 Days to the Seventh Seal sermon on Feb. 9, the memorable quote was "You don’t have to look anything up, you don’t have to go read anything you just know it’s true." He was speaking of British-Israelism, but it clearly was meant to apply to everything, in context.

Richard Saunders said...

Ron says these things? Isn't that odd now.

He says Herbert Armstrong had more revealed to him than probably all of the Apostles combined (or something close to that), did he not? Herbert Armstrong claims that no one taught him when he was first called. He got on his knees with his Bible, alone, in study and prayer, to prove the Sabbath. This means not only was Armstrong, Ron's idol and source of authority, alone at home but he was studying on another day than the Sabbath - AND he received the Spirit.

So who is Ron Weinland, then, if his own human leader, teacher, and source of ordination went against every thing he is now saying?

Anonymous said...

You make a very good point about the Bereans. They searched, because they heard something that was NEW to them and they searched because they DID NOT have a "preconceived" judgment against what Paul was saying. If we ONLY study what we've ALREADY heard, we are not like the Bereans. We must be willing to "listen" outside what we already believe and THEN study scripture to see if what we heard is true or not.
Anytime a church or organization doesn't want to even "listen" open mindedly to others...they are not like the Bereans.
I don't know if it is a fear, their beliefs won't stand to scrutiny or if they just don't want to take the time to prove what they say they believe.
Truth WILL stand up to scrutiny in scripture.

Anonymous said...

This is a very interesting topic, but it makes me question something. I agree with you about
1st John 2:27, but I wonder if he's
talking to a congregation that has
at least some experience with the things of God, even though he calls them "little children".

This is what I mean: I wish that I would have had someone to give me a good foundational knowledge of biblical things, such as the nature of the covenants, for example. Like the knowledge that a covenant from God cannot be added to or taken away from (Gal.3:15-17)
and that the Old Covenant is obsolete, and that we can't live under the New and parts of the Old at the same time. If I had been armed with that kind of knowledge when I was younger, someone like Herbert Armstrong wouldn't have been able to put me under his spell and "take me captive" like he did to so many of us for so
many years. And in that sense, I think it's truthful to say that when a person is young and still
green, that they need someone to give them at least a foundational knowledge of biblical truths.

But then once armed with those truths, and someone like a Herbert Armstrong or a Ron Weinland come
along, they can say "I don't need
anybody like you to teach me any
thing".

And so I'm wondering if John is
writing to them with the understanding in mind that they
already have knowledge in basic scriptural things and so now they
are "big enough" to advance on their own now.

Seeker Of Truth said...

Anon (April 8, 2009 10:57 AM)
Yes, I would assume they have basic knowledge. Of course, from my understanding of theses scriptures, this applies to those with the Holy Spirit. Children should be getting that basic knowledge from their parents, however, when you grow up oWCG, you get ripped off.

But, as individuals with the Holy Spirit, these scriptures tell us what we need in order to grow spiritually.
I really like the sharing of ideas and current understandings between people, I think this aids spiritual growth, and Jesus tells us that where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there (despite RW teaching otherwise).

I, too, would have liked to have had a grasp of the actual truth of the Bible, but i was lucky in one respect... I was rebellious. I didn't "obey" everything, and even as a teen I questioned the church. I went to church with some of my friends and when they wanted to come to church with me... I knew something wasn't right. What church has to council with you before you can attend?! I knew that wasn't right! I was lucky, too, that my Mom (single parent) was relaxed enough to allow me to attend church with my friends, though it wasn't frequent. I saw there, a true example of loving and accepting people.

When RW came on the scene (in my Mom's life) I listened, as she wanted. I even attended the FOT 2005 where he announced that Jesus had a beginning! Right then and there I knew he was not God's minister! I went home and began to research all the things he was teaching. I asked my Mom about various scriptures concerning O & NC, and I asked my spouse. Each one sounded so logical so I was getting absolutely nowhere. This is when I realized I was seeking answers from the wrong source.
I began asking God to open my eyes. I told him I didn't have a preference about what the truth was. I told him that if we are to keep holy days... no problem. I told him that if we are not to, again, no problem. I told him it didn't matter to me... All that mattered was that I have his truth.

I, both, prayed that prayer and studied (literally) every day for ten months. And finally my eyes had been opened! I had learned more in that ten months than I had learned in all my previous years!

Anonymous said...

Hello Seeker of Truth,

I'm reading your response to my comment (Apr 8,2009 10:57 am) and
I want to say "Thank You" for your
website and all of the info that
you and the other contributors are
providing. After being in WCG and
then UCG, and finally leaving UCG recently, I'm still in the process
of unraveling HWA's teachings,
and this website (which I've just
recently discovered) is a great
help.

You mentioned that you liked
sharing current ideas and understanding, and that where two
or three are gathered......well,
I've gotta tell ya, this website,
XHWA's blog, and a couple others,
are in a big way "my church" right
now, because finding another church to attend isn't an easy
process. And I think I can speak
for a lot of others out there who
are in the same situation.
So thanks again,
Take Care

Seeker Of Truth said...

Anon (April 9, 2009 12:47 PM),

Thank you for your comment. It means a great deal to me and, I know, to the others you mentioned. Truly, we long for oWCGers and others in similar circumstances to find truth. The truth about the NC is amazing, eye-opening. Stuff we just had no idea about.

There may be two or three post on this blog that are out of date, small stuff, but everything else is as useful today and tomorrow as it ever was, as well as xHWA's blog.
Sometimes it's difficult to know if anyone is being helped by these blogs, so thanks for letting us know that someone is!
You're in for a great adventure of eye-opening discoveries in your quest for truth!

xHWA said...

Anon (April 9),

Your thanks mean more to me than I could let you know. You've made my entire day!
I know that your thanks are to God, but still, it makes Seeker and me feel incredible that we can help Him call His precious children into the wonder of His New Covenant.

Like Seeker said, we rarely get to know who we've helped. I always said that my blog would probably ever only help one person, and I may never know who.

I know the angels do rejoice in heaven over you, because I certainly am!! My heart is filled with joy over your faith in Christ. To take the steps you're taking now, into an unknown -- that's incredible. But you keep on going. You have friends in Christ who are with you and praying for you.

God bless you and profit your studies and fill you with His love and faith! Please do come back and discuss the things you learn with us whenever you can.