Jesus is the Creator

Following is what I understand the verses to say;

Isaiah 48:

 

12 "Listen to me, O Jacob,
       Israel, whom I have called:
       I am he;
       I am the first and I am the last.

[The speaker identifies himself as the First and the Last, and then goes on to say;]

 13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,
       and my right hand spread out the heavens;
       when I summon them,
       they all stand up together.

[Here, this speaker says he laid the foundations of the earth and spread out the heavens. Who is this speaker, aside from the creator and the First and the Last? He identifies himself further in the following verse;]

 

 

 16 "Come near me and listen to this:
       "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
       at the time it happens, I am there."
       And now the Sovereign LORD [In this case, the Father] has sent me,
       with his Spirit.  

[The speaker says the Sovereign Yahweh sent him, meaning; the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth,, and spread out the heavens, the One who identified himself as the First and the Last.]

[We see that he also calls himself the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last in Re. 22:
 

12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.  
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.  

15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Jesus is Yahweh Too

The Father is not the only Yahweh, Jesus is too.

Jeremiah 23:

5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD (Yahweh H 3068 Self-Existant, Eternal),
       "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
       a King who will reign wisely
       and do what is just and right in the land. 

 6 In his days Judah will be saved
       and Israel will live in safety.
       This is the name by which he will be called:
       The LORD (Yahweh) Our Righteousness. 

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Jeremiah 23

Let's read Jeremiah 23 today;

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Jeremiah 23

The Righteous Branch

 1 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!" declares the LORD. 2 Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: "Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done," declares the LORD. 3 "I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. 4 I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD.

 5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD,
       "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
       a King who will reign wisely
       and do what is just and right in the land.

 6 In his days Judah will be saved
       and Israel will live in safety.
       This is the name by which he will be called:
       The LORD Our Righteousness.

 7 "So then, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when people will no longer say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,' 8 but they will say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.' Then they will live in their own land."

Lying Prophets

 9 Concerning the prophets:
       My heart is broken within me;
       all my bones tremble.
       I am like a drunken man,
       like a man overcome by wine,
       because of the LORD
       and his holy words.

 10 The land is full of adulterers;
       because of the curse the land lies parched
       and the pastures in the desert are withered.
       The prophets follow an evil course
       and use their power unjustly.

 11 "Both prophet and priest are godless;
       even in my temple I find their wickedness,"
       declares the LORD.

 12 "Therefore their path will become slippery;
       they will be banished to darkness
       and there they will fall.
       I will bring disaster on them
       in the year they are punished,"
       declares the LORD.

 13 "Among the prophets of Samaria
       I saw this repulsive thing:
       They prophesied by Baal
       and led my people Israel astray.

 14 And among the prophets of Jerusalem
       I have seen something horrible:
       They commit adultery and live a lie.
       They strengthen the hands of evildoers,
       so that no one turns from his wickedness.
       They are all like Sodom to me;
       the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."

 15 Therefore, this is what the LORD Almighty says concerning the prophets:
       "I will make them eat bitter food
       and drink poisoned water,
       because from the prophets of Jerusalem
       ungodliness has spread throughout the land."

 16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
       "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
       they fill you with false hopes.
       They speak visions from their own minds,
       not from the mouth of the LORD.

 17 They keep saying to those who despise me,
       'The LORD says: You will have peace.'
       And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
       they say, 'No harm will come to you.'

 18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD
       to see or to hear his word?
       Who has listened and heard his word?

 19 See, the storm of the LORD
       will burst out in wrath,
       a whirlwind swirling down
       on the heads of the wicked.

 20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back
       until he fully accomplishes
       the purposes of his heart.
       In days to come
       you will understand it clearly.

 21 I did not send these prophets,
       yet they have run with their message;
       I did not speak to them,
       yet they have prophesied.

 22 But if they had stood in my council,
       they would have proclaimed my words to my people
       and would have turned them from their evil ways
       and from their evil deeds.

 23 "Am I only a God nearby,"
       declares the LORD,
       "and not a God far away?

 24 Can anyone hide in secret places
       so that I cannot see him?"
       declares the LORD.
       "Do not I fill heaven and earth?"
       declares the LORD.

25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship.  
28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

 30 "Therefore," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD.

False Oracles and False Prophets

 33 "When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle  of the LORD ?' say to them, 'What oracle?  I will forsake you, declares the LORD.' 34 If a prophet or a priest or anyone else claims, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' I will punish that man and his household. 35 This is what each of you keeps on saying to his friend or relative: 'What is the LORD's answer?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 36 But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God. 37 This is what you keep saying to a prophet: 'What is the LORD's answer to you?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 38 Although you claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' this is what the LORD says: You used the words, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' even though I told you that you must not claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD.' 39 Therefore, I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers. 40 I will bring upon you everlasting disgrace—everlasting shame that will not be forgotten."

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Blog Recommendation

 I would like to recommend reading a new blog called  Escaping Armstrongism - Help for people who are there and don't know why anymore, by xHWA.

This site offers some fresh material and gets you thinking. Check it out. I don't think you will be disappointed.  You can also find the link in the Blog List on the right.

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Is It A Sacrifice For God To Become Human & Die For Us?

Is Jesus self-existent? Did He take on human form?

Was He created? Did He become God?

If He is self-existent, what kind of sacrifice is it for God to come down here & pay the penalty for our sins? He knew He would be dead only three days & nights and be resurrected. Anyway, God can't die, right?

Let's examine this.

Before we begin, let's first pause to think about sacrifice. Sacrifice is giving up something that is painful to give up. The more you give up the bigger the sacrifice and all the more painful. If it's not painful, then it's not a sacrifice, it is simply giving.

We'll start by assuming Jesus was created, had a beginning;

What is the sacrifice?

ALL HUMANS DIE

How is it a sacrifice for a created Jesus to die? He knows He'll be resurrected.

A sacrifice is about something painful to give up. How much does a created Jesus give up? What is He giving up? All humans die.

Well, let's see... He was put in the womb of a virgin by God. This is His beginning, this created God. When did He become God? In the womb? After He was born? Perhaps at a certain age? Is He human or is He God? Is He both?

He was created in a human body. He was created to become God. He was created to die for our sins. To suffer and be tested like all humans. He had to overcome, He had to be perfect.

He wasn't giving up a 'normal' life; planning a future, having a family. His life was predetermined. So what did He sacrifice? What did He give up? His human life. He relinquished His life.

Now let's assume He is self-existent;

What is the sacrifice?

HE'LL JUST BE RESURRECTED

How is it a sacrifice for God to take human form and die? He knows He'll be resurrected.

A sacrifice is about something painful to give up. How much does God give up? What is He giving up?

He is an eternal, self-existent being who came down from heaven, giving up His glorious body for a flesh body... a body that sweats, pees, poops, must be fed and bathed and wears common clothing. (Can you imagine the President of the United States washing your feet? How much further to descend in humility, for God to take human form for thirty plus years, than for the President to wash your feet?)

Jesus/God was put in a body that feels. God felt every lashing. God was tortured. God's flesh was ripped from his body, His bones were showing. He was so marred, He was beyond human likeness.

So, whether Jesus was created or self-existent, in each case the pain and suffering of torture is felt.

WHAT IS THE SACRIFICE?

So, again;

What does a created Jesus give up, how much does a created Jesus give up? Quite a bit. He will be tortured to death, but be raised three days later, and soon join the Father in heaven.

What does a self-existent Jesus give up, how much does a self-existent Jesus give up? Quite a bit. He will leave His home in heaven to get down in the trenches with us, leave His glorious body behind, inhabit a human body that pees and poops, and be tortured to death, and soon return to the Father in heaven.

WHO IS MAKING THE SACRIFICE?

Let's look at three arguments for a created Jesus;

1) If God comes down and dies for our sins. How's that a sacrifice? He knows He's going to be resurrected three days later.

Whether He had always been God, or whether He became God, it is still God who makes the sacrifice. It is still God who pays the debt. Whether created or self-existent, He knows He will be resurrected three days later, He knows that he will be joining or re-joining the Father in heaven in a few days, so how is it any more of a sacrifice for a created Jesus than it is for a self-existent Jesus? God, or human; He knows He'll be resurrected.

THE OTHER TWO ARGUMENTS

You see? In either case it is God who sacrifices, who dies to pay the debt for our sins.

2) God can't die.

Remember: the body dies (a temporary death~or sleep, as I've pointed out in previous posts), the spirit returns to the Father. The spirit only dies if sent to the pit (an eternal/permanent death).

3) How can He inherit what is already His?

First, why would you assume it's already His?

Second, the Bible tells us that Yahweh inherits. (Remember: Ron teaches that only the Father is Yahweh).

See the dilemma? It's a backfiring argument. It only requires logic and common sense. But, in case you don't see the dilemma; It's a backfiring argument because if only the Father is Yahweh, and if the Bible says Yahweh inherits, then you can't use as an argument for Jesus being created: "How can He inherit what is already His?" Still don't get it? If the Father can inherit, then Jesus can inherit. Now do you get it?

Here is the problem with Jesus being created - the problem with a God being created to die for our sins;

Is. 43:10 tells us no Gods have been or ever will be created, meaning;

1) Jesus was not created and,

2) You will not become Gods.

WHICH IS GREATEST?

Now we come to this question; Which is the greater sacrifice? Who gives up the most? It's quite clear who gives up the most; An eternal, self-existent God.

Are you trampling under foot the Son of God?

Yet an other of Ron's arguments that do not hold water.

Again, I ask you members; are you capable of proving me wrong?

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Ron,

Just a few things:

Flowery, syrupy love. Yes, how fake. Apparently love should be sober and formal. Sounds so... warm and loving. But then that makes sense coming from a man who admittedly has to work at showing affection.

You're always going on about Elohim insinuating it means family/God family. Show me proof. You won't find it. You say Jesus' name is Jesus Christ. No, Christ is one of His titles, just as is Yahweh and Rock and Savior, et al. You also say that you will be gods... um, no. Only the Father and the Son are God. Again, God said there was no God created before Him, nor will there be one created after.... we were created... which is also proof that Jesus did not have a beginning.

Last week you went on about Mother Teresa, how people are selfish, there's nothing good in anyone... she was not of God.

So based on this reasoning not a single person is of God... and Ron, you are no exception.

You seem to have a habit of making arguments that don't hold water.

Like "How can He inherit what's already His? The Bible says Yahweh inherits, which I talk about in "Did Jesus Have A Beginning? RePost. Anyone who studies and researches scripture should know that.

You go on about people who who say they have new truth and how haughty they are about what they saw and believed. Well, you tell me; how are you any different? Where is your proof that you have the truth?

I have proof that you are a false teacher, a false prophet leading people away from Jesus. So easily proved. So easily it's laughable.

PKG is your church, yes yours, it's not God's, you don't teach what the Bible says. You teach twisted lies. You pervert the word of God.

Members,

Maybe it's just not your time yet.

You need to understand; Unless you wake up and repent (before the return of Jesus/or the death of your physical body - which ever comes first), I believe you will not be the Bride of Christ. I believe that once you realize the truth, you will accept it and thus be in the kingdom... but not as the Bride. I want you to be part of the Bride of Christ. I want that for you. How could I not?

 Members, can you prove me wrong? Go back and read the Yahweh article (the quickest, easiest one to investigate) then comment or e-mail me the proof that those scriptures don't prove Jesus did not have a beginning, that Jesus is not Yahweh too. Define what those scriptures actually mean, if you don't agree with me. If that particular teaching of Ron's is wrong, what else is?

If I was working on a math problem and got it wrong, how would you show me the actual solution? You wouldn't just say "that's wrong" or "I don't see it that way," you'd go through the steps to show me the solution to the problem, (unless, of course you didn't care).

So Ron was talking about the cesspools on the internet; do you think my blog is a cesspool? Do you think your going to grow sick spiritually because you "dig though the garbage" on my blog? Because you "swim" in my so-called "icky tank?" "eww." Ron says some of the stuff on the internet almost got to him and he had to battle it. I find that interesting. Sounds like he almost saw the truth of God, but sadly, Satan was able to keep his hold on him. 

Well, I ask you, where are my lies. Show me proof.

Let me ask you this; how is Ron any different than me? Where is the proof that he has the truth?

Don't believe his lies and his tricky, crafty words. Tell me how he is any different. Show me the proof. This blog shows proof that he does not have the truth. As RW likes to say: anyone with the eyes to see will see. Anyone called of God will see it is the truth. Unless your being called, you're just not going to see it.

You can't be one with God when you've been cut off, alienated from Jesus.

The unity and oneness you have, this family that Ron talks about, is not with God, it's with Ron. Ron is not of God. He teaches a different Gospel and a different Jesus.

Ron, It's interesting... are you telling your congregation it's okay to keep FOT in their homes? Because, you said they cannot possibly grow spiritually at home, just them and the Father and Jesus. I guess it's okay since you can teach them with your sermons. You sure have a lot of holes in your teachings. You contradict yourself repeatedly. I was wondering; will they be keeping the entire Feast, or just a few days? You know, with the huge deal you make about Pentecost and which day it should start on, and the importance of Sabbaths. But I suppose it would be okay, if you give them permission. Then it won't be counted as a sin for breaking Gods very specific rules for keeping annual Sabbaths. Wow, they are so lucky to have you... the special 'called one'... whose every prophesy failed.

(By the way members, for those of you who lost your jobs last FOT, or who will lose them this time, or lose them again - let me give you something to ponder; God is love, God is love, God is love... and He expects you to prove it by losing your jobs and struggling financially? God is love, God is love, God is love.)

Then you go on about Jn. 14:10-19 and obeying Jesus' commands - like the Old Covenant Ten Commandments were the only commands ever given by God! Jesus said obey my commands, but you say Jesus was not the God of the Old Testament, yet you talk like Jesus is talking about the commands given at Sinai, which makes them the Fathers commands, not Jesus'.

You mock those who say they have loved God their whole life. You say they have not and they have a lot to learn, (you know, not 'keeping God's law & all). Well, as you know, everyone sins. Does it mean you, Ron, really did not love God before He allegedly revealed "truths" to you? Do you have a true blue tried and tested method to find out if someone has the 'truth' and thus, 'loves' God? Get over yourself. You are so self-righteous.

Tell me, how can you, Ron, know God if you can't admit the truth of Jer. 23:5-6 and Is. 48:12-13, 16. Is it because one of the most difficult things people face, is that their belief might be wrong, to acknowledge it and accept the truth - God's truth?

This is what those verses say;

Jer. 23:5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal). [In this case, the Father], "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King [Jesus] who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) Our Righteousness.

[Who is the righteous branch? Jesus is. What will he be called? Yahweh Our righteousness. Which Yahweh? The Son.]

Is. 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

[The speaker identifies himself as the First and the Last, and then goes on to say;]

13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.

[Here, this speaker says he laid the foundations of the earth and spread out the heavens. Who is this speaker, aside from the creator and the First and the Last? He identifies himself further in the following verse;]

16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) [In this case, the Father] has sent me, with his Spirit.

[He says the Sovereign Yahweh sent him, meaning; the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth, and spread out the heavens, the One who identified himself as the First and the Last.]

[More simply put; Jesus says the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth. Jesus is the creator. Jesus is Yahweh. The Father is Yahweh.]

Jesus said He came to reveal the Father. Interesting. What's to reveal? He's the God they've always known, isn't He? After all, according to you, Jesus didn't exist then.

It's amazing how what you "know," is 'from God', but not what I or anyone else knows. Everyone proclaims they have the truth - what makes you ANY different from them? Where is your proof? You don't have it. You know full well Ron, that when your first set of prophesies failed, that it was proof that God was not working with you, because God is not a liar. Can you tell us which of God's prophets He made look like a false prophet because what was proclaimed did not come to pass? You can't because God said when that happens, they are prophesies that did not come from Him.

Ron, you have told the congregation to go back to all the 'truths' God has given your church. Well, you need to tell them to go to their Bibles and 'truly' study, because they clearly don't. You and I both know that if they did, you'd be penniless. You must be pretty scared. How would you pay the taxes on your house? Yikes. Pretty clever how you came up with the plan and got a big chunk of their second tithe. Things are pretty tight with people dropping out, huh? Have you been investing or...? What's the plan for your financial stability when your second set of dates fall through?

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.