Are We Living In The Last Days?

Quote-miners rejoice! I've recently read over a forgettable little speedbump in the Armstrongist library. The title of the booklet is "Are We Living in the Last Days?" copyright 1971, 1973. I cannot determine who the author is, specifically. It only claims to be from Ambassador College. No doubt someone out there knows. Certainly it was not Herbert Armstrong himself. But I think you'll enjoy some of the quotes recorded all the same.

The opening statement contains this quote:

"How can you KNOW whether this really IS the end-time generation? Can you PROVE it?"

I would like everyone to keep in mind that throughout the entire history of the Radio/Worldwide Church of God, the claim was that we could know prophecy and its fulfillment, including timing, for sure! The claim was always that this information was revealed by God, transmitted on authority of God Almighty, and is sure! Failure to act upon it meant your eternal life was forfeit. These were by no means mere claims of "maybe" or "could be". They were SURE!

Bear that in mind.

“You are living in the time of the end. But people have said that for centuries, haven’t they? Yes, they have. And, surprisingly, we say it again today. You are living in the time of the end – at the close of an age.”

-p.7

An absolute claim. Remember - it's sure and you can prove it.

“Throughout history men have been jeering at the proverbial picture of the eccentric, slightly mad, self-appointed ‘prophet of doom’…”

-p.7

Because a false prophet can only be a person who is wild in appearance, and slightly mad. Not at all like the respectable people in suits and limousines like you see in Herbert Armstrong's entourage. Clearly these men are for really real prophets.

(II COR. 11: 14) For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

On p.8, the author points out “perhaps the most famous” false prophet, William Miller. The very William Miller from whom Herbert Armstong’s church is descended.

It is astounding to me that the past cannot be changed, but these men always acted as if it never happened.

The connection between the Worldwide Church of God, the Seventh Day Adventist church, and William Miller's Adventist group is a matter of historical fact. Easily provable. Still they flatly deny it. This is plainly a lie; a deception; an untruth.

William Miller started the "we are living in the last days" Adventist movement in the 1840's. Though he twice failed, in an event known as "The Great Disappointment", his movement forged ahead none the less. (Sound familiar?) Into that group, in the latter 1840's, came James White and Ellen G. Harmon (aka Ellen G. White). They ran the Adventist show until one fateful night between September 28th and October 1st, 1860, when a meeting where the church would decide to take the name "Seventh Day Adventist". That night, one Gilbert Cranmer, an Elder in the church, broke away because he could no longer accept Ellen G. White's visions. Gilbert Cranmer started his own church that later became known as the "General Conference of the Church of God - Seventh Day." It was this break-away church that eventually hired Herbert Armstrong to be a preacher, and Elder, and a leading member of church government. Armstrong was secretly building his own ministry, and teaching ideas he got from fringe elements like G. G. Rupert. For this, he was fired. Undaunted, he formed the Radio Church of God (1934, 1946) which later became known as the Worldwide Church of God (1968).

This is a matter of documented, historical fact. The Worldwide Church of God IS an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists, and thus a descendant of this very William Miller whom it here derides as false.

They are descended from two false prophets!

“So, all these people have something in common. They were all wrong. Not one of them was right. The end of the world hasn’t come yet. The world is still going along on a kind of disequilibrium. But, going along nonetheless.” 

-P.10

At this point, 1971/1973, Herbert Armstrong had been precisely one of “these people” for just shy of 40 years already. His own false prophecies started in the early 1930’s. Read the Plain Truth magazine, June/July 1934, paying close attention to page 3, and see for yourself how Herbert Armstrong plainly taught that Jesus Christ would return in 1936!!

What is even more egregious is that this booklet was written right smack in the middle of the "1975 In Prophecy" debacle. January 1972 was supposed to be the start of the 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation leading to the return of Christ. This booklet was started in 1971, in 1972 the prophecies failed, prompting Herbert Armstrong to write a horrendous redaction letter, and in 1973 - not one year later - this booklet was released.

I want you to read more about the 1972 failure in this article "All Systems Are Go!"

“But the time has come to silence this doubting, skeptical and cynical attitude. God says the time HAS COME FOR ALL THESE PROPHECIES TO BE FULFILLED…”

-p.42

In 1971, 1973?? I wasn’t even born yet! I’m fairly certain that if the end had come, I wouldn't be writing about it. Nor either would you be here reading this.

“For centuries a wily and crafty adversary of God (Satan the devil) has sent his false prophets to delude man into expecting the imminent return of the Messiah. Always there has been a letdown. Christ did not show up when these self-appointed ‘prophets’ said He would.”

-P.42

And there’s absolutely no difference in this instance.
Have they any self awareness whatsoever??

Yet men such as Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Rod Merideth, John Ritenbaugh, Harold Smith, etc, etc, etc, continue on as if none of this false prophecy mattered... or happened.

1972 never happened. Nothing to see here.

“Consequently, people have become doubtful that Christ really will ever return. This is exactly what the devil has desired! Because when God’s true servants stand up to announce the immanency of Christ’s return, a ‘once bitten, twice shy’ public will not believe it! They’ve been ‘had’ too many times!”

-p.42

I wonder. I just wonder... is this an admission of guilt, craftily disguised as a warning? One of those narcissistic “If I tell them my plan, they won’t believe it” sort of things? Something to ponder.

“God’s Word plainly says, ‘Watch therefore, FOR YE KNOW NEITHER THE DAY NOR THE HOUR WHEN THE SON OF MAN COMETH’ (Matt. 25:13). This Work has never set an exact date for the return of Christ!”

-p.43

Nooooooooooooooooo. Never. Except when they set 1936, 1936-1954, 1972, 1980, and etc, etc.

We're the good guys! Not at all wild-looking like a real false prophet. Trust us!

If you read "All Systems Are Go!" you will know why they included this disclaimer about setting exact dates.

The key here is the word “exact.” It’s deceptive to make claim after failed claim, then weasel out of it by saying “I never set an exact date.” Notice how God never set exact dates in the Bible either - so this excuse is void. But I tell you this - Herbert Armstrong made precise statements again and again and again. Only by the sheer volume of claims could a person possibly find one that appears to have come to pass. The great majority failed on their face!

The problem in 1971/1973 was that no one had assembled any accurate record of what was claimed in the past. Through the blessings of the Internet, we can do that now. Just glance at this list of 209 failed prophecies for one example.

“Though we cannot know the precise day of the return of the Messiah, we can know the approximate time in history – “THE TIME OF THE END.”

P.43

We can? Then why didn’t you, oh sane-looking author of the booklet? Remember, this booklet was written in 1971/1973. That's half a century ago. How "approximate" are we talking here?

I'm not saying no one can. Perhaps it is possible. But I would go so far as to say no one has. And that most certainly includes these people!

“As John the Baptist prepared the way for the first coming of Jesus, this Work is preparing the way for his second arrival! (Mal. 4:5-6.)”

-p.43

You should be fully aware that Jesus arrived during John the Baptist’s ministry.

And now we sum it all up with this final quote:

“Is this the wild-eyed ranting of another ‘sect’? Or is this the message of the WORK OF THE LIVING GOD? You can prove it. Your eternity could depend on it! Your immediate future will surely depend on it. This is the End Time! Yes.”

-P.44

Yes. You can prove it. How?

(DEU. 18: 22) “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

Simply ask yourself – did Jesus return in 1936, 1936-1954, 1972, 1980 and etc, or its immediate future? No. Case closed. There is nothing more to discuss. And, yes, your eternity could depend on this.

Current members of any Armstrongist group - any Church of God that descends from Herbert Armstrong or his teachings - I implore you -- take this seriously to heart and get out of there as soon as you can! Don't bury your questions. Ask them! These are not light matters to be brushed under a rug. Take this to heart and meditate on it.

If you have left, know for a fact that you are not alone. There is help for you. Just look at this list of supportive documents, kindly assembled by Que on your behalf. There are many people pulling for you. Contact me, I will personally see to it that you get the help you need.

Wonderful News!!!

Everyone! I have wonderful news!!

A CERTAIN MEMBER OF MY FAMILY HAS LEFT RON WEINLAND'S CULT!!!!!!!!!

I have waited soooooo long for this! I have prayed soooo much for this! And the day is here! This is one of those unique times in a person's life when it's just time to celebrate one's heart out. I count this right close to things like my marriage, or the birth of my children, or my own escape from Herbert Armstrong. I have no doubt that all the angels in Heaven itself are crying for joy!

Now, the victory isn't completely won. Just because this particular individual has left Ron, it does not mean they have left Armstrongism. But I have absolute hope, faith, and confidence in God that He both can and will work miracles to bring His loved ones from the bitter chains of Herbert (the W doesn't stand for anything) Armstrong, and into the wonderful light of grace and life of Jesus Christ within the New Covenant. Jesus wins. I just have to wait for it. By His grace I'll even live to see some of it.

I ask everyone to both celebrate with me and pray with me. And not just for this particular individual, but celebrate for all who escaped Armstrong, and pray for all who have not. Every one is precious. Every one is in need. But for right now, I'm overwhelmed and overflowing with joy and thankfulness for this particular one who is dear to my heart.

The highest thanks be to God Most High!! And thanks to all of you who have been of any support or any comfort in this wearisome battle along with us here at As Bereans Did, and the other former-Armstrongist blogs. Don't think too little of your prayers and support. Every last little bit helps! I thank you all.

FREE AT LAST! FREE AT LAST! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY! FREE AT LAST!

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Acts 17:11

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Buono Anno Nuevo

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Here's to a new year filled with growth and grace, freedom and life. "Faith, hope, and love are some good things He gave us, but the greatest is love." God's enduring love to y'all in 2010!

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Acts 17:11

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A New Questionnaire for Armstrongites

I am in the process of rewriting a questionnaire I developed a few years back that I have used when counseling people out of the teachings of “Armstrongism.”

I thought I would share the starting questions, which I have decided to pattern after the old Bible Correspondence Course many went through in their indoctrination into Armstrongism, as I felt it would be a great venue for deprograming some with a similarly structured question and answer format that sucked them in to Armstrongism to begin with. It only seems apropos to do so. If you have any questions of an embarrassing nature to Armstrongism that you would like to submit for possible inclusion into the final product, please let me know through the comments section.


1. Does any one person or church have the right to alter scripture and its application in any way?

If yes, then please explain how this is possible given the following scriptures:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:2

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deuteronomy 12:32


2. Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Given the above passage of scripture, would teaching people to keep the commandments in a manner not consistent with scripture be a case of teaching and following the commandments of men?


3. According to scripture, what was the tithe the Israelites had, and who was to be in receipt of the tithe?


4. Were the Israelites required to tithe on their monetary wages?


5. Seeing as scripture never required or commanded anyone to tithe of their wages, is teaching people to tithe on their wages then a commandment of men?


6. If the scriptures were not to be diminished or added to, then is requiring people to tithe of their wages adding to the commandments of God?


7. What did Jesus warn his followers of in regards to false ministers? (Hint: appear as angels of light; be wolves in sheep’s clothing, appearing to be shepherds).


8. What does a wolf do to a flock? (Hint: devours and fills his own belly at their expense).


9. Do your ministers live well and feed themselves from the tithes they demand of you?


10. Did the apostle Paul, when making his case that ministers of the gospel were entitled to support as a result of preaching the gospel, use tithing as a means to justify their support?


11. If tithing is required of Christians, why did Paul not use tithing as an example of how the ministry was to be supported, and how could he refuse tithes from various churches?


12. If false ministers were prophesied to come who would take advantage of flocks to their own benefit, what method would they employ and demand in order to accomplish this?

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Acts 17:11

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Babylon the Great

I have wanted to write a post on this topic for some time. I figure I’d better do it now.

After recently discussing at length with several members of various Armstrongist Churches of God on the topic of judgment and condemnation (they weren't talking much about it but I sure was), I spoke with one man who seemed to make a personal crusade of condemning the Catholic Church because he so deeply believes that the Catholic Church is Babylon the Great, as taught by Alexander Hyslop and Herbert Armstrong. Considering my recent posts on True History of the True Church and Who Is the Beast, how deeply and deliberately flawed those teachings were, how they were clever deceptions crafted for no other reason than to bring down the Pope and raise up Herbert Armstrong, I thought it would be appropriate to point out a few flaws in this theory as well.

Mystery

(REV. 17: 5) And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17: 5 says the word “mystery” and the word “Babylon” in the same sentence. Mr. Alexander Hyslop concludes, and Herbert Armstrong swallows whole, that it refers to an entity known as a mystery religion. However, we can conclude only one thing: the Bible must interpret this “mystery”.

In 27 places in the New Testament, Strong’s 3466, the Greek “musterion”, is translated as “mystery” or “mysteries”. Including the one in the statement on the forehead of Babylon the Great.

Mystery: Musterion (Strong’s 3466, Greek) from a derivative of ‘Muo’ (to shut the mouth); secret or “mystery” (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites)

The word carries the inference that it is something secret that is only revealed to the initiated. The initiated in this case can only be the saints.

(COL. 1: 26) the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.

Speaking from the perspective of Armstrongists for a moment, Presbyterians are not saints – they are the harlot daughters of the harlot church. [I personally disagree with this, but it is an accurate statement from the Armstrongist perspective.] One must ask, then, how could the mysterious identity of Babylon the Great be revealed to Alexander Hyslop, a Presbyterian Minister, in the 1850’s?? He is the man who wrote “The Two Babylons” in 1853, from which Herbert Armstrong took his interpretation of Babylon the Great. Is he a saint, or is he wrong? Think on that.

Being a Greek word, musterion is found nowhere in the Old Testament. But the idea is there. God revealed secrets to Daniel and others. My point is, the truth must come from God. No man will think his way into the correct understanding of it. God’s word is the Bible. If your understanding comes from somewhere other than the Bible, chances are high that you’re speculation is wrong.

(REV. 17: 7) When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

The angel explains the mystery. Not Alexander Hyslop.

A Great City

Herbert Armstrong taught that the woman is a church. Let’s ask the Bible.

(REV. 17: 18) The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

The woman is “the great city”. She is again described as a city in this and the next chapter. One can scream and cry that it’s a false church, but that’s not what the one who explains the mystery says.

Search the Bible and you will see that a city is not a prophetic symbol of a false church at all but of a city directly and a nation by association and symbolism. In the same way that when we say “Washington D.C.”, we mean it, but we could also mean the whole United States since that city is a symbol of our nation as a whole – and Paris is a symbol of France, and Moscow of Russia, and Jerusalem of Israel. In order to believe this is referring to a church, we would have to ignore the angelic explanation and redefine the Bible’s own symbolism. That isn’t letting the Bible interpret itself!

Reference that in Hosea 2 and 4. Now notice how a nation’s children are her citizens. Thus, God usually refers to the citizens of a nation as “daughters” (eg. daughters of Zion). If that is so, then Babylon the Great being the “mother of harlots and abominations of the earth” actually means her citizens are harlots.

Israel and Babylon

I would like to investigate a few oddities in the Bible. Specifically I will be showing the similarities between Israel/Judah/Jerusalem, and Babylon the Great, and Babylon. Am I doing this to bash Israel? Certainly not! Israel will be brought back to God. I only do this to show that there is an alternative to the speculative interpretation of prophecy pawned as truth by Herbert Armstrong.

1) Adultery and Prostitution

Throughout the Bible idolatry is likened to adultery. Here is a major clue as to the identity of Babylon the Great.

In doing a word search for adultery, I have come across some interesting things. Idolatry is likened to adultery and spoken of more often than actual marital infidelity. Yet more interestingly, there are only two entities who are ever called an adulteress - Israel (including Judah), and Babylon the Great. Both Israel and Babylon the Great are also called prostitutes.

In the NIV, Revelation 17: 2, 4; 18: 3; 19: 2 all translate the Greek word “porneia” as “adultery” in reference to Babylon the Great. Other versions use “fornication” instead of “adultery”. Porneia can refer to adultery. Figuratively, it refers to idolatry.

If adultery is violating a marriage contract, and Babylon the Great commits adultery, then Babylon the Great was in a marriage contract. Only Israel was ever said to be in a marital relationship with God. Only Israel can commit adultery against God. How, then, can this Babylon the Great be something other than Israelite? She commits spiritual adultery against God, therefore she had to be in the marriage relationship.

Israel’s sin was abandoning its marriage contract with God to rebel against Him, lusting after idolatry and sin, and preferring friendship with the world over devotion to God (adultery and prostitution). These are the only definitions given for ‘spiritual’ adultery and prostitution. What, then, could possibly be different about Babylon the Great’s adultery and prostitution? If prostitution is leaving God to love the world and its idols, then Babylon the Great left God to love the world.

Personally, I feel this going on about adultery is mere details and much ado about semantics. I included it anyway simply to make a point.

2) Tender and Delicate

(ISA 47: 1) about Babylon

¹ Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter of Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, Daughter of the Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate [Str. 6028: luxurious].

(JER 6: 2) about Jerualem

² I will destroy the Daughter of Zion, so beautiful and delicate [Str. 6026: luxurious].

3) Receives Double

(REV. 18: 6) about Babylon the Great

⁶ Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup.

(JER. 16: 18) about Israel

¹⁸ I will repay them double for their wickedness and their sin, because they have defiled my land with the lifeless forms of their vile images and have filled my inheritance with their detestable idols."

(ISA. 40: 2) about Jerusalem

² Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed, that her sin has been paid for, that she has received from the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

(ISA. 51: 19) about Jerusalem

¹⁹ These double calamities have come upon you- who can comfort you? - ruin and destruction, famine and sword - who can console you?

4) Queen

(REV. 18: 7) about Babylon the Great

In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'

(ISA. 47: 5) about Babylon

⁵ Sit in silence, go into darkness, Daughter of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms.

(LAM. 1: 1) about Jerusalem

¹ How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces [nations] has now become a slave.

(EZE. 16: 13) about Israel

¹³ So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen.

5) Widowhood

(REV. 18: 7) about Babylon the Great

⁷ Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'

(ISA. 47: 8-10) about Babylon

⁸ Now then, listen, you wanton creature, lounging in your security and saying to yourself, 'I am, and there is none besides me. I will never be a widow or suffer the loss of children.' ⁹ Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood. They will come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and all your potent spells. ¹⁰ You have trusted in your wickedness and have said, 'No one sees me.' Your wisdom and knowledge mislead you when you say to yourself, 'I am, and there is none besides me.'

(ISA 54: 4) about Jerusalem

⁴ Do not be afraid; you will not suffer shame. Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated. You will forget the shame of your youth and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.

6) Scarlet, Gold, & Jewels

(REV. 17: 4) about Babylon the Great

⁴ The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

(REV. 18: 16) about Babylon the Great

¹⁶ and cry out: " 'Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! ¹⁷ In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

(JER. 4: 30) about Jerusalem

³⁰ What are you doing, O devastated one? Why dress yourself in scarlet and put on jewels of gold? Why shade your eyes with paint? You adorn yourself in vain. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life.

7) Sorceries

(ISA. 47: 12) about Babylon

¹² Keep on, then, with your magic spells and with your many sorceries,

(ISA. 57: 3) about Israel

³ But you-come here, you sons of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!

8) Swift Destruction; One Hour

(REV. 18: 10) about Babylon the Great

10 'Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!'

(REV. 18: 17) about Babylon the Great

¹⁷ In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

(REV. 18: 19) about Babylon the Great

In one hour she has been brought to ruin!

(ISA. 47: 9) about Babylon

⁹ Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day

(JER. 4: 20) about Israel

²⁰ Disaster follows disaster; the whole land lies in ruins. In an instant my tents are destroyed, my shelter in a moment.

9) Blood of the Saints

(REV. 17: 6) about Babylon the Great

⁶ And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

(REV. 18: 24) about Babylon the Great

²⁴ In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."

(ACTS 26: 9-11) about Jerusalem

⁹ I too was convinced that I ought to do all that was possible to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. ¹⁰And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. ¹¹Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. In my obsession against them, I even went to foreign cities to persecute them.

(REV. 11: 9) about Jerusalem

⁸ Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

(I KING 18: 4) about Judah

⁴ While Jezebel was killing off the LORD's prophets, Obadiah had taken a hundred prophets and hidden them in two caves, fifty in each, and had supplied them with food and water.)

(I KING 19: 10) about Israel

¹⁰ He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."

(NEH. 9: 26) about Israel

²⁶ But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they put your law behind their backs. They killed your prophets, who had admonished them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies.

(MATT. 23: 34-35) about Israel

³⁴ Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. ³⁵ And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

(MATT.23: 37; LUKE 13: 34) about Jerusalem

³⁷ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

(LUKE 11: 47-51) about Israel

⁴⁷ Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them. ⁴⁸ So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. ⁴⁹ Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' ⁵⁰ Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, ⁵¹ from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

(ACTS 7: 52) about Israel

⁵² Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him

(I THS. 2: 14-15) about the Jews

¹⁴ For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, ¹⁵ who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men

10) Great City

(REV. 18: 21) about Babylon the Great

²¹ Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.

(REV. 14: 8) KJV about Babylon the Great

⁸ And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

(REV. 11: 9) about Jerusalem

⁸ Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

(REV. 16: 19) about some city, probably Jerusalem because of the context

¹⁹ The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.

(JER. 22: 8-9) about Jerusalem

⁸ People from many nations will pass by this city and will ask one another, 'Why has the LORD done such a thing to this great city?' ⁹ And the answer will be: 'Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God and have worshiped and served other gods.'

(LAM. 1: 1) about Jerusalem

¹ How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.

The Seven Hills

(REV. 17: 9) Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

At this point, some may be wondering about the seven hills of Rome.

First off, these are symbolic hills, they are not real hills. They represent nations and their leaders. I find it convenient that we spend so much time demanding that a woman is a symbol for a church, but we immediately forget what hills and mountains are symbols of. Second, they don't belong to the "woman in Rome", they belong to the beast she rides. From an Armstrongist perspective - that would be the seven German hills of the 10-nation European combine. Makes no sense when you look at it like that, does it? This whole teaching from HWA is full of such holes.

I did a quick internet study on the cities of the world which are built on 7 hills. I found 7 other cities around the world that are listed as being built on 7 hills: Tallahassee, Florida; Seven Hills City, Ohio; Nevada City, Nevada; Cincinnati, Ohio (this is just a nickname, it is not literally on 7 hills); Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Istanbul, Turkey (formerly Byzantium and Constantinople); and finally Jerusalem, Israel.

That’s right, Jerusalem was a city on seven hills before Rome was built. It is not hard to find more information about this. Byzantium was the capitol city of the eastern Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine chose the area specifically because it has seven hills. It was a tradition with origins in superstitious religious beliefs that the number seven made something sacred. But the name “city on seven hills” is not exclusively a Roman title!

Something to Think About

At one time or the other, Herbert Armstrong claimed the Pope was the "little horn", Babylon the Great, the False Prophet, and the Image of the Beast. How can the Catholic Church be Babylon the Great who rides the Beast -and- the little horn of the Beast -and- the Image of the Beast that is besides the Beast -and- the False Prophet that empowers the Beast?

(REV. 17: 16) And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

So let me get this straight... The Pope is the "little horn" of the Beast that comes up among the other 10, the Pope plucks up three of those horns, yet all 10 join with him to burn his own church with fire? Not possible under HWA's timeline. Not possible under HWA's interpretation. Yet there it is in the Bible, plain as day. And then we see this:

(REV. 19: 20) Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, the Catholic Church rides the Beast, is hated and killed by the Beast, yet it works false wonders for the Beast and creates the mark of the Beast, and is later thrown alive with the Beast into the lake of fire? If the Pope is killed by the Beast, how can he make war with Christ at His return? These things cannot be!

Conclusion

Certainly this is exciting and dreadful. Who could Babylon the Great be? Odds are she is Israelite in nature. The similarities between Jerusalem and Babylon are dumbfounding. Jerusalem is a city, symbolically representing Israel and Judah; Babylon the Great is a city, symbolically representing some heretofore unrevealed nation. But from what we’ve read, one would think “Babylon” is a Biblical nickname (so to speak) of Jerusalem - along with Egypt and Sodom. Only the Bible can interpret the Bible, and this study comes straight from it. But I make no claims of knowing for sure.

I am in awe at the sheer volume of information linking Israel to Babylon the Great which has been overlooked by Herbert Armstrong. I overlooked it for the majority of my life because I followed him. I was at fault for not proving what I heard, as the Bereans did!

When I point these things out to people, they do not want to hear it because they love what they already accept – even though it is based on the ravings of a 19^th century fraud and not on the Bible itself. They swear it’s true! They boldly proclaim the next Pope will fight Christ. They continue to point out problems with the Catholic Church as if they themselves have none to worry about. They judge and condemn a billion of God’s hand-crafted children with nothing more than speculative interpretation. It appears that they love to judge and condemn. Is this right? Is this Godly? We should be comparing ourselves to Christ and letting Him judge! Ask yourself - what if I am wrong?

(MAT. 12: 7) But if ye had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.

(LUK. 6: 37) Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

(ROM. 2: 1) Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

(ROM. 14: 4) Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

Concentrate on your own walk with Christ!

Am I concluding Israel or the Jews certainly are Babylon the Great? Absolutely not! Then what on earth am I doing? This and this alone: offering an alternative. What if you are wrong?

God calls for us to wake up and watch! Does a watchman stare off in one fixed direction? What if the enemy sneaks in from behind? Was he, then, actually watching? No! If we stare in one fixed direction, the one people have been staring in for over 150 years, we are not living up to what God expects of us. What if you are wrong?

By all means, keep looking at churches to fulfill this symbolic Babylon the Great. Look at other things as well. But stop all the judgment and condemnation because you don’t know it to be sure! There are convincing alternatives. What if you are wrong? What, then, comes of your judgment and condemnation?

I personally believe Alexander Hislop’s conclusion was dead, dead wrong; he couldn’t understand the mystery; his motivation was clearly slanderous accusation and condemnation. His was a cleverly crafted deception. Read “The Babylon Connection” by Ralph Woodrow for a detailed and easy to understand look into Alexander Hyslop’s folly. What we’ve been taught was incorrect. We must look to God by His Spirit through the Bible to clue us in as to who she is because nothing and no one else can. When the time comes, it will all become clear.

Belleville COG through?

Al Buchanan, minister of the Belleville Church of God, almost universally considered one of the least oppressive ministers in the oppressive Worldwide Church of God splinter-groups, has announced his intention to step down from the ministry.

Depending on your point of view, this could be a black day in Armstrongism or a time to celebrate.

In his announcements given during Sabbath services on October 17th, he recounted how several members of his close family narrowly averted death in the Gulf of Mexico at the FOT 2009 in Panama City, Florida. (Praise God in the highest terms for this merciful Providence.) The event was so emotionally devastating, he realized he could no longer function in the role of minister.

In a message given on October 24, 2009, entitled "Loving One Another", Al laid out more details about his decision to step down. There apparently was a second family issue involved about which he will not divulge details. He also mentions that this is a decision he has been going back and forth on for several months. Thus, it would appear these family tragedies are the straw(s) that broke the camel's back.

If you are not immediately familiar with Al Buchanan, he was once closely tied with Ronald Weinland. They co-hosted a Feast of Teabernacles in Seveirville, Tennessee, in 1999, as Mike's timeline will plainly show over at the "False Prophet Ronald Weinland" blog. Al soon began to see through Weinland's illusion of friendliness, recognized his deceitfulness and love of power, and he severed ties with Weinland quickly. Al Buchanan was a pillar of support for the Church of God - Toledo, after Ron Weinland's seizure of the Church of God, Inc. in February 2000, where he disfellowshipped the Board and kicked out every voting member in Toledo who he thought might oppose his scheme to set himself up as sole ruler. Since then, the Belleville church and the Toledo church have been extraordinarily close. Al remains a critic of Ron Weinland.

Several people have written, called, and sent cards expressing their sympathies for his family. Regardless of what you may think about an Armstrongist minister, Al is a man, a fellow human being, who almost lost several cherished members of his close family. Understandably he would be shaken. I think he and his family deserve a degree of sympathy, understanding, and human compassion - even if the best you can do is to say nothing at all. Al was a good friend to me, as was his family, as were most of the Belleville congregation. I would personally appreciate it.

Whether they accept it or not, my heart goes out to them deeply. I am so thankful this didn't end much worse. Praise God for that.

He has also received some support for his decision to step down, and some calls for him to change his mind. This decision greatly affects the Belleville COG and the Church of God - Toledo. One, or maybe both, may cease to exist depending on how this turns out.

Nothing is set in stone yet! He may yet be convinced to change his mind. Keep an eyeball on this for further developments.

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Acts 17:11

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