Why No Salvation For Demons?

Thinking out loud about why there is no salvation offered to demons. Could it have something to do with death?

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I just want to think out loud today. Nothing definitive. Lots of guessing, speculating, and wondering.

A while back, I wrote two posts "Banished or Saved from Eden?" and "Once and Future Kingdom - part II", and in those, I went over the idea that since we chose poorly and went for the Tree of Knowledge rather than the Tree of Life, death was necessary in order to redeem us, and therefore not allowing humans to reach the Tree of Life made our reclamation possible. That sparked a thought in my mind.

If death was critical to human salvation, is the inability to die critical to why demons cannot be redeemed?

This is speculation, mind you! I am not claiming to be so wise that I have the solid answer. The Bible doesn't really tell us about these things. It's ambiguous enough to where some people actually believe there will be a salvation for demons. I'm not convinced of that, though. I think people dream up all kinds of things, and this is one of them. I think there is no salvation for fallen spirit beings. But why not?

There are two thoughts on the immortal nature of the spirit beings we commonly call angels and demons.
One says these beings are unconditionally immortal and therefore they can never die.
The other says the one and only unconditionally immortal being is God Himself. Other spirit beings are conditionally immortal. Meaning they can live forever, but only if God allows it. It appears Adam and Eve were conditionally immortal ...until they weren't.

If fallen spirit beings cannot die, and death is required for salvation, then there can be no salvation at all. Their end is Hell eternal. End of discussion. So, let's not focus on this.
But if their immortality is conditional, then God could simply revoke their existence. Annihilation. God, the Creator and Sustainer, can do all that can be done. The question is, can this be done? Or, perhaps if it can be done, is there some kind of limiting factor like an oath sworn by God that He would never do this? The Bible is silent.

So, according to the second line of thinking, they can die. Like Tolkien's elves. Then, why no salvation? Is it because of annihilation? Perhaps because they have no body, no mortal form, death for them is immediate annihilation, whereas death for us is a separation of our spirit from our physical body without annihilation...? Immediate annihilation would pretty effectively rule out salvation.

I wonder, if they would first be embodied and made human, then killed, would that count?
But would it count as a human death or a spirit being death? Jesus was embodied and died, but His death counted as a human death. My guess is the death of an embodied spirit being would probably just count as yet another human death among billions. It can't be that simple.

I think it wouldn't matter either way because their own death cannot redeem them. Humans die all the time but we've never redeemed ourselves. Only the death of God, as a man, was able to redeem mankind. If you turned a demon into a human and then killed them, there is not sufficient value to redeem anything, not even their self. So, it might count as a human death plus it has insufficient value. Chances are good that this path fails.

Just for completeness sake, I know of two selections from the Bible that seem to talk about Satan being killed.

(EZE. 28: 18-19) 18 By all your wrong-doing and sinful trading you made your holy places sinful. So I made a fire come out from you, and it has destroyed you. I have turned you to ashes on the earth in the eyes of all who see you. 19 All the nations who know you are filled with wonder and fear because of you. You have come to a bad end, and you will be no more forever.

But is Satan going to be destroyed, or just his works? The word translated as "destroyed" does not necessarily mean annihilation of existence. Just two verses prior, in verse 16, Satan was "destroyed" from among the fiery stones. Past tense. Yet, he still exists today. So, what really is being destroyed here? What will be no more forever?
Or, since this is a lamentation for the King of Tyre and an allusion to Satan both, in poetic form, does every little thing even apply to Satan?
I have no answer. Only questions.

And then you have this from Isaiah. The majority of the chapter is about death and it very much seems to be referring to Satan.

(ISA. 14: 15-16) 15  Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. 16  Those who see you will gaze at you, and consider you, saying: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms'...

Quite a bit of this chapter would go well with the parts in Revelation that speak about the final defeat of evil. Yet, it's poetic, apocalyptic language. It is never a good idea to be too literal with apocalyptic poetry.
These words really seem to describe a conscious existence, as well as something that can be seen. This confounds many, because it says, "those who see you". Does "those" include normal humans, as if to say there is an embodiment involved? Or, does it refer to glorified humans and spirit beings only, with no embodiment involved? Or, is it just more apocalyptic poetry that points to a definite reality but couches it in hyperbolic language?

Both selections talk about a possible death. Neither mention any value coming from it. So, there are no solid answers other than there is no salvation to be found here. We will have to wait and see about the particulars.

I warned you up front that I'm just thinking out loud today!

I think the answer to why there is no salvation for fallen spirit beings is because salvation requires death, and 1) if they can die then they cannot die without being annihilated, and 2) even if they could die as we do, there is insufficient value in it for salvation. I think it won't matter if there is an embodiment or not. The only salvational death is God's death. God would have to become one of them and die. Not gonna happen! (I don't even think that's possible. You can't be born an angel as you can a man.)

In the end, the most reasonable choices I can see are annihilation or eternal torment. Revelation 20: 10 appears to side with eternal torment.

And this takes me right back to my post "Banished or Saved from Eden?". Good thing God kicked us out of that garden before we could access the Tree of Life, or we'd be in the very same boat as those spirit beings. Thank God for our enemy, death. Thank God for HIS death, specifically! He saved us from death, through death. God does love a good turnabout.

Thoughts?

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom. ; )

Acts 17:11

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Can God Die?

This is a common question and source of confusion for many. This question was brought up in a comment left for me. I'd like to repeat my response, & expound a bit more...

We have understanding of the physical but we can't presume to understand the 'spirit being' or the 'spirit realm'. So often we look at these from our human perspective and apply our own reasoning to them. As I mentioned in my Did Jesus Have A Beginning post, the bible tells us that Jesus was rich [spirit] but became poor [flesh] so that we could become rich [spirit].


{Need interlinear to translate properly}:

Php. 2:5-8 Says he EMPTIED himself. What did He empty himself of? I'd say, of His 'equality' with the Father; i.e., being a spirit being, and becoming flesh.

v.6 Who, subsisting (G5225) in form of (G3444) God, did not consider equality with God to be plunder (G725)
[i.e., something he should grasp and not let loose of],

v.7 but emptied (G2758) himself taking the very nature of a servantbeing made in human likeness.
[became flesh, no longer spirit], [did not come to be served but to serve]

He became flesh. And flesh can die. However, death of the flesh is merely 'sleep'. If you recall the story of Lazarus, he died but Jesus said he was sleeping.

Jn. 11:11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

12 His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better."

13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14 So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead,

15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."

From our perspective, he was dead - we have no control over death. From God's perspective he was sleeping - God has control over death. He resurrected Jesus, whose physical body was dead/sleeping, but His spirit was still intact.He then speaks with a sister of Lazarus;

Jn.11:24 Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
[resurrection from physical death]

26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die
[Those still alive at Jesus' return, made spirit]. Do you believe this?" Again, Jesus says;

Jn.8:15 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Now what did He mean when He said that? People die every day.He was talking about actual death; Death of the soul. Death is not permanent until the soul has been destroyed.Jesus said in
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Do you see the distinction between the two kinds of death? What we think of as 'death' is not actual death. (Death of the body is none the less painful for those left behind, because it'll be a long time before God resurrects them). Real death does not come until the soul has been destroyed in the lake of burning sulfur, reserved for those who do not inherit the Kingdom of God. And by the way, if God can destroy both body & soul, that includes:

Re. 20: And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown


.In response to some questions & thoughts posed:

FIRST NOTE: Self-Existent means; Having No Creator. Therefore, humans that are made spirit become eternal but are not self-existent. (There are some who don't understand this.)

• If we believe that Jesus is self-existent,& gave up His spirit body to become human & die a physical death, does it mean His spirit could have died also?

No, this is simply not the case. If you know your Bible, you know that the spirit returns to the Father when the body dies;

Ecc. 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

• Could Jesus have ceased to exist?

It seems silly to even have to address this, but some people actually think it. His soul would have to be destroyed for that to happen & that is not God's nature. He is Love, not Evil. So, Jesus' s soul had not died. But the body He inhabited did.
As I stated earlier; We have understanding of the physical but we can't presume to understand the 'spirit being' or the 'spirit realm'. So often we look at these from our human perspective and apply our own reasoning to them. It just doesn't work that way.
Again, I recommend you also read Did Jesus Have A Beginning? I'd be curious to know if, after doing so, questions still remained. I will be addressing other false teachings of Ron Weinland in future posts, with plenty of scriptures.