Tuesday, January 26, 2010

Ron Weinland - In His Own Words

I would just like to review a few of Ron Weinland's past statements. This post is nothing new, nothing revolutionary. Other blogs have done similar posts, and their posts have been just as ignored as this one will be.
Still, I stick by my belief that a false prophet is always exposed by his own words.
And I feel that going over this sort of thing regularly, as repetitive and fruitless as it seems, is actually a benefit in the long term.

How this works is I'm going to post some quotes from Ron, grouped by topic, so you can see what he said a while ago compared to what he's saying recently and you can see how he changes things subtly over time.

Weinland On The "Truths" (Some of Which He Changed):

"Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong being God's apostle at the end of this age and the one God used to restore truth in the Church [a reference to end-time Elijah], etc., are a few of the examples of the kinds of things being attacked and changed by people who see themselves as new restorers of truth. They fail to understand our history or how God called us and worked with us. They fail to grasp that truth had to be restored to the Church [another reference to the end-time Elijah] by God and that what they are actually doing now is tearing down the very work that He Himself did."
(Also read the section "Rejected" for more.)

But a "restorer of truth" is exactly what Ron now sees himself as, and he's taken to changing the old "truths". Starting at 18, we've now exceeded 50 truths. How is he some exception, then? Is he tearing down work now, or were those others innocent when he made this boastful claim back then?

"The greatest challenge to the scattered Church of God has been the testing and trial upon brethren as to whether they would be faithful stewards to the truths that God had restored to the Church [a reference to the 18 truths] during Philadelphia through Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong [a reference to the end-time Elijah]."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q5 2002

Well, are you a faithful steward? Are you rejecting Ron?

“The abomination of desolation that has been working to destroy the Church is the very power that works to dilute and change the word of God — the truths restored [a reference to the 18 truths].”
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q5 2002

That's a HUGE bungle! He calls himself the Abomination of Desolation! Open mouth -> Insert foot.

Ron altered these "truths" post facto, and demoted Herbert Armstrong to a type of Elijah, but not really the Elijah after all. Hypocrisy? You decide.
I would just like to point out that unless one literally IS Elijah the Tishbite, then one can be nothing more than a type of Elijah. So what is Ron's point of making this distinction about HWA?

Weinland On Herbert Armstrong:

"By denying what God did through the Church and Mr. Armstrong up until the mid 1980's, we can be guilty of denying the "work" of God. There are many ministers who believe they must teach about a "Work of God" yet to be accomplished through their efforts and those of their organization. Brethren need to understand what they actually mean when they say such things."

I point out to you, dear reader, that this quote matches Ron Weinland 100%. Consider carefully what it is that he is doing!

"Foundational truth necessary for salvation [a reference to the 18 truths] was replenished through the Elijah that would 'truly first come, and restore all things' [a reference to Herbert Armstrong] before the end of this age and the return of Jesus Christ (Mat.17:11). If you believe these things, your focus is going to be much different from someone who believes we are still living in Philadelphia and that Laodicea is yet to come. Your focus will be different from someone who believes that Mr. Armstrong was not 'the Elijah to come.'"
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q2 2001

And Ron Weinland no longer teaches that Herbert Armstrong was THE Elijah to come. And thus, by his own standard of measurement, he denies God Almighty.
(Read "Elijah - Ron Weinland or Herbert W, Which?" for more info on this.)

"If we believe that we are living in the time of the great apostasy spoken of in 2 Thes.2, we will more fully grasp the importance of what God did through Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong in restoring foundational, trunk-of-the-tree truths [a reference to the 18 truths] to the Church during the period of Philadelphia. Most of these truths had been lost by the end of Sardis [completely untrue; read this article for details]. Again, we are speaking of very basic truth that is necessary for salvation."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q2 2001

"Your focus will also be quite different from others who believe the gospel must yet be preached in all the world as a witness, if you believe 'that witness' has already been given."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q2 2001

If it was already given, how can anyone give more? If it was so necessary for salvation, why did Ron change it? If it were so necessary for salvation to know that Herbert Armstrong was the end-time Elijah, why does he now teach against it?
Not so necessary after all.

"Prophet" Weinland On Physical Destruction During The Tribulation:

"Ezekiel 5 is going to be fulfilled in a physical way to the nations that make up modern-day Israel, and they have already been almost fulfilled on a spiritual plane within the Church—the spiritual Israel of God."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q5 2002 [emphasis mine]

"Ezekiel prophesied about a time when there would be such great destruction upon Israel that one-third would be destroyed almost immediately in the days when this tribulation begins, and another third would be destroyed over the following few months. Through this traumatic time, the last third would be scattered as a result of this devastation, but that is not the end of the tribulation because the last part of verse 2 makes it clear that a sword of destruction will come upon this last third."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q5 2002

"We have not always understood those prophecies in that [spiritual] light. Instead, we have focused more upon a physical fulfillment rather that a spiritual one that involved the Church."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q5 2002

Please allow me to elaborate slightly. There was supposedly a spiritual destruction upon "the Church" since the 1990's.

"We live in a time of spiritual tribulation upon the Church (the spiritual Israel of God)."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Apr/Jun 2000

"Just as great physical tribulation will come upon the modern nations of Israel, great spiritual tribulation has already come upon the modern-day Israel of God—the Church of God."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Q1 2002

And that spiritual tribulation was supposed to be ending at that time.

"...we are drawing near to the end of the tribulation and the scattering that is upon the Church."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, Apr/Jun 2000

From there, we were supposed to enter a physical phase of the Great Tribulation that would bring all kinds of destruction across the earth, as we have already seen quoted. "The Church" has always taught about physical destruction. At least since 1934 that was taught.

“If by Pentecost [2008], I’m just going to make this real clear to everyone - if by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the U.S. and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and for most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on all of those interviews that I have held; to do less, ah.. well.. would be quite insane.”
-Ron Weinland, “Three More Weeks” sermon; timestamp 1 hour 28 minutes

But.. notice anything missing? Where is this physical destruction? (Or the apology?)

"Since the timing of what I had stated as being the moment when the First Trumpet was blown (April 17), we have seen no clear evidence on a physical plane of the fulfillment of that trumpet, although it has been stated that such things will be revealed throughout the timing of the entire first four trumpets."
-Ron Weinland, New Truth, June 2008

As recorded in the You Tube video, "God's Final Witness" ["Final Witness" is always a reference to Ron himself], Ron, from his own mouth, makes the following two statements:

“And the world will be shocked! And in horror! On the day that the 7th seal is opened. You will lie, you will twist, you will distort, and you will die… speedily.”
-Ron Weinland

Pretty succinct, no? Though we were promised one thing by a "prophet", now we get this instead:

“The 7th seal is opened. Somebody in email will say, ‘Well, nothing happened.’ You know? Well, you know? Did I say anything would happen on the 18th? It’s a spiritual thing. I thought I made that abundantly clear.”
-Ronald Weinland

Oh, things are abundantly clear, alright.
It was supposedly spiritual, that spiritual was coming to an end, then it was going to be physical, the physical never manifested as prophesied, and now we're back to spiritual again. Physical? Who mentioned anything about physical?

Confused reader, you may be asking yourself how anyone can excuse Ron Weinland's blatantly ungodly series of lies, twists, and distortions. Please allow me to explain this from a believer's standpoint.
It's a "progressive revelation", you see. No matter who he cursed with death, or bashed and condemned, or who he caused to sell their family homestead to give him money expecting the timing was accurate as claimed (it was supposed to have been revealed to him by God, after all), or whatever... no matter the unending river of contradictions... never mind any of that. Ron made those predictions "from God" in ignorance; not knowing he was wrong. Only what he says now matters because now God has really revealed the really true truth. He's not a false prophet just because he prophesies in God's name falsely. He gets a pass because he was completely ignorant as to just what magnitude of an ass he was making of himself. He didn't know that the things he claimed were given him from God were actually things he made up, and since he didn't do it on purpose, he's a real prophet. Especially now - this time - because he's finally right.
Well, at least until it's progressively revealed that he is still wrong. Because you never know when that will happen! Then it will be OK at that time.

(JOHN 9: 39-41) 39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.” 40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains."

(ROM. 3: 3-8) 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, and may overcome when You are judged." 5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

Yes, observant reader. That view does mean that everything I've written in this post means nothing to Ron Weinland's followers. They will dismiss it all because these quotes were from a time of ignorance. Only what he says next matters.

I admit that I can sympathize with this view, because I was once a follower myself. My heart goes out to Ron's followers. They don't understand that I'm on their side. I hope some day they can.

Weinland On How He's Been acting Lately:

"Too many today are lifting themselves up, kidding themselves that they are doing God's bidding, yet all the while denying the true evidence all around them. To lift ourselves above what is true and falsely esteem an organization and its efforts while ignoring the truth, is the epitome of Laodicea."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, January 2000 [emphasis mine]

"Many brethren are going to be found guilty of working against God's will, not for it. They are not actually doing His work, but they believe they are. Lifting up our own efforts, as being God's, is idolatry. Stubbornly supporting things that are false and lifting up an organization or a ministry that denies the true evidence is idolatry. Spiritual idolatry was the great sin that led us to being spewed out of God's mouth. Idolatry is sin, and sin separates us from God."
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, January 2000 [emphasis mine]

"You need to be alert now more than ever. This is not the time to support false visions. Now is not the time to bury your head in the sand, as we all did once. Shame on us for doing it again! You may not like the truth. The truth always hurts when pride is in the way, because pride fights against humility and seeks to hold on to self-justification"
-Ron Weinland, News Watch, January 2000 [emphasis mine]

Now that is something I can stand behind.

Esteemed reader, please hear my reasoning on this post.
Ron Weinland is not the first false prophet to come along, and he won't be the last. It didn't start with William Miller, it won't stop with Ron Weinland. Allow me to remind you of some other "great disappointments" in our recent past. The Adventists followed William Miller. The SDA church follows Ellen G. White. The Jehovah's Witnesses follow C. T. Russell and the Watchtower Society. The Worldwide Church of God followed Herbert Armstrong. The Philadelphia Church of God follows Gerald Flurry. The COG-PKG follows Ron Weinland. And on and on it goes.
Some people perpetuate false prophecy for generations. Some people see the lies and allow it to destroy their faith in Christ altogether. Some people bear a heavy burden of personal guilt and pain for years, even decades after they leave. I hope you see, a false prophet is no small thing! What can possibly come of this mess but more judgment and condemnation? This is nothing to shrug off by saying "Well, I'll know in 2012 if he's true, then I'll be on about my way. No harm done." Oh, I'm certain there will be some harm done.

God bless you and protect you from these false prophets that Jesus Himself describes as "ravenous wolves" (MAT. 7: 15). I just wish to remind the ones who need to hear it that it wasn't Christ who lied to you, it was men! Don't give up faith. It's not all for naught... if you allow these things to try you like pure gold. Don't give up.

If you feel you need some support in this, there is help. Please contact the Exit and Support Network as soon as possible. You are not alone!

God bless you and keep you.

It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.
Acts 17:11


xHWA said...

Hi Mal. I ask you to spare me the benefit of the doubt -- I'm not against you.

xHWA said...

I like this quote from David Robinson:

"When one stands and defends a fraudulent person, one becomes contaminated in the process. When one lies to defend a liar, then one assumes the guilt of the one he defends.
When the one he so defends is a teacher of religion, then his religion is called into question!"

Something to ponder anyway.

elderchild said...
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elderchild said...
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xHWA said...

Well, that's some really...

Listen, EC, I have got to admit you're on about something I'm not catching.

I'll allow your off-topic comments because you haven't tried to promote anyone's website or ministry specifically.

xHWA said...

A friendly warning to all not familiar with this blog:

I'll give ya the rope, what you do with it is your business, but no one is hanging themselves here.
Comments are welcome, but not commercials. For example, if you promote the "America is not God's children", "thus says Yareysh" or Yehuca or YippeeKayYay or whatever... I'm not going to allow your comments.

Anonymous said...

Wowzers, my ears are bleedin'!!!

angel said...

Not that I want to get into a political debate or anything, but personally I can’t think of a country I’d rather live in than the U.S. Is it perfect? Nah, but what country is?

The way I see it, I can identify the problems and be upset about it, which won’t change anything; or I can do my part to make it better. This isn’t my home anyway; Jesus is preparing a place for me!

A lot of people have believed the lies of this world and the lies of false prophets, and all I can do is try to reason with one person at a time, as God gives me the opportunity.

It is really helpful, xHWA, that you point out the inconsistencies in Ron’s statements; anyone who REALLY cares about the truth is going to have a hard time ignoring them if they continue to be brought to their attention. Mal is one that really needs to hear them because he does have doubts; I pray that your continued patience with him will bear fruit.

elderchild said...
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Anonymous said...

"Simply, "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" "

Hmmmmmm, now where have I heard THAT one before? Wait, wait, don't tell me, it's on the tip of my tongue.....

*pushes button and shoves EC out the airlock of the mothership*

xHWA said...

I was born in America. I didn't exactly choose it. But I'm with Angel on this. There's no place I'd rather live.

Italy is a close second, because.... hey, it's Italy. :D

Otherwise, I see nothing in the Bible to suggest to me that ease of life is a sin, per se, let alone a greater sin than what I see everywhere I look, and under every rock and tree.
So, God bless America!

And Italy.

xHWA said...

Elder Child,

I am cutting you off right here.

You're way off topic.
You're making little sense.
I don't necessarily disagree (or agree) with you, but this is a blog about a specific subject that you're not anywhere near addressing.

Sorry, but I thought I made my policy clear.
God bless, and go in peace.