Friday, January 15, 2010

Elijah - Ron Weinland or Herbert W, Which?

There is again a buzz stirring among the Armstrongist splinter groups. Recently Ronald Weinland, founder and leader of the “Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God”, has declared himself to be the end-time Elijah, in reference to a private interpretation of Matthew 17: 11 and Mark 9: 12. Even though a number of people are already writing about this, and others are preparing to write (they no doubt have more to say and will do a better job than I can), I write about it for no other reason than I have been asked politely to write about what the Bible says concerning the end-time Elijah.

I think it would be the best approach to write this in two parts. This first part will not be so much about what the Bible says, but I will attempt to show the absurdity of any man proclaiming himself to be a unique fulfillment of prophecy. And I would like to start by showing the great number and diversity of people who do.


Some people say the actual Elijah will be resurrected before the end, thus making Elijah himself the end-time Elijah. Some people say their entire ministry is the end-time Elijah, and no single man, thus making their whole church the end-time Elijah. I have a better idea.

Elizabeth Elijah Nikomia is certainly the one. It’s her middle name!
Jahtruth is certainly the one. He’s got only one name!
Father John is certainly the one. He’s from Zimbabwe.
Charles Meade is certainly the one. Would Elijah live anywhere besides Florida?
William Branham is certainly the one. He has a supernatural halo. Photographs don’t lie!
Towards the end of the 1800’s the rage was “The Third Angel’s Message.” Now it’s the “Third Elijah’s Message.” Brought to you by Frank T. Clark. Certainly the one.
Or, if you prefer to chat with the Elijah, you can find him at You simply cannot argue with the provided headshot. For the love of Scott, his email address is elijahthetishbite! (<- The one.)

Just look at all of the wild-eyed, self-appointed prophets of doom. Marvel at the sheer volume of people contending for the title. Which could it be? Which is the real end-time Elijah? Choose wisely! You're salvation depends on it.
"But without a doubt the king of all end-time Elijahs was our very own Herbert (the W doesn’t stand for anything) Armstrong. If for nothing else than the rabid evangelism of his remaining followers who demand HWA was indeed “Elijah to come.” It has been elevated to a matter of salvation. Disavow at your own risk. Still, some foolishly dare to disavow:
"Although God has personally given Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong no commission, he nevertheless feels that virtually every commission God has ever given is his. Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong either thinks he is, or is to do the job given to: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the 'watchman,' the 'inkhorn,' the one who 'cries aloud and spares not,' Elijah to come, a type of John the Baptist, either Joshua or Zerubbabel, one of the two witnesses, an apostle, a 'messenger' one who 'prepares the way,' Hosea, Malachi, Moses (anyone who disdains Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong’s authority or position is immediately compared to Korah), Daniel, Joel, Amos, etc., etc., etc. And, of course, he primarily feels he is to fulfill Matt. 24:14 -- see Rev. 14:6 for the most likely individual to take care of that job." 
-Taken from Robert Garringer's 1975 letter to Charles Hunting, as posted on the Exit and Support Network website.
Does that not illustrate how ridiculous it is to take upon yourself so many titles? What kind of person would do such a thing?
    Enter Ron Weinland.

Here is Ron’s explanation in his own words:
“As God has made me both an apostle and a prophet for this end-time, He has also given me to fulfill prophecies being the spokesman of the two end-time witnesses of Revelation 11. In addition, He has given me to fulfill the prophecies of the 'Elijah to come' and of Zerubbabel.”
-Ron Weinland, "The 'ELIJAH TO COME'", 12-24-2009
It’s getting a little crowded in here with all those titles. How many Elijahs can there be?

(I COR. 8: 2) 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.


Ron Weinland doesn't stop there. He also states other “truths”, like this one:
“Herbert W. Armstrong did restore truth to the Church—truth lost during Sardis.”
"Restoring the truth" is a term used by many Armstrongists. This is how they define the "Elijah work." The Elijah will come, and his work is to "restore the truth". What truth? Why, the truth lost during the Sardis era of the church, of course. Ron claims Herbert Armstrong did this!

“Sardis” and "Sardis era," you see, are codes, loaded language if you will, for the Church of God (Seventh Day). Armstrongism is a branch of Seventh Day Adventism. Adventism teaches that the church throughout history came in waves, called eras. They point to Revelation chapters 2 and 3 and they say those were not cities in one place and one time but eras in various places across time. The COG7 is the church group out of which Herbert Armstrong sprung, so it gets a special nod as being the direct ancestor to Armstrongism. Or, as they would see it, the previous era of the church. The COG7 is Sardis, and Worldwide Church of God is Philadelphia.
But it also needs to be de-legitimized in order that Armstrong's own church can be sold as the "one true church." (There can be only one!)

In the fall of 1937 Herbert Armstrong was fired and his ministerial credentials revoked. Having no axe to grind whatsoever (I say that sarcastically), Herbert Armstrong often referred to the COG7 as the Sardis Era (aka The Dead Era) of Revelation 3, and his own church, the Worldwide Church of God, as the Philadelphia Era (aka the Beloved Era).
He lifted this idea, among others, without due credit from one Mr. G. G. Rupert.

I do not want to go into whether or not Revelation 2 & 3 spoke about church eras in time or not. I hold that they do not, and I will provide some links below to reinforce my stand. But Herbert Armstrong held that they did. I only provide this background as an FYI.
You need to know these sorts of things when you're an Elijah, you see.

What I will get into next are the historical facts of the Adventist movement and what they believed. The "Elijah work" is to restore truth, after all, and what people claim is that Herbert Armstrong restored truth. If I can demonstrate that Herbert Armstrong restored no truth, or that truth was never "lost" in the first place, then we have a strong case against Herbert Armstrong being the end-time Elijah, and by extension, Ron Weinland. Or any other Armstrongist minister for that matter.


To sum up so far:
We have Herbert Armstrong, a down-on-his-luck detergent salesman who supposedly was called by God to lead the one true church. He was supposedly called to restore some lost truth. This is the what Armstrongism believes the Elijah will come to do. He supposedly will restore lost truth. For this and other things, he was fired from the Church of God (Seventh Day) and started his own church.
We also have Ron Weinland, who would like to be that Elijah. So, Weinland tips his hat to Armstrong, saying that Armstrong restored eighteen truths, thus making HWA a "type" of the Elijah. Weinland says 18 because Armstrong's own church said 18. Then, Weinland must himself invent an even greater, more impressive list of truths that he restored. This makes him even more Elijah than Herbert Armstrong, and sets him about the real Elijah work.
Don't worry about exactly what these "truths" are quite yet. We'll get to that shortly.


In his hat-tip to Herbert Armstrong, Ron Weinland claims this:
"John the Baptist was not used by God to 'restore' anything. However, we did see Herbert W. Armstrong used in a very unique way to “restore” truth to the Church that the era of Sardis had lost (they only had three basic truths remaining). God said of Sardis that they were spiritually dead and that was because they had consistently become weaker through time by losing many foundational truths of God. The Church had become so weak that it was ready to die completely."
However, oh best beloved, is this even so? I can provide evidence that it is not.
For that, let's go to the early 1900s and see what the Church of God (Seventh Day) was teaching.

A. N. Dugger was arguably the greatest leader of the COG7 during the years Herbert Armstrong was a minister of that group. A short-list of the COG7's doctrinal beliefs was compiled by Mr. Dugger in 1936. Note that the date 1936 was one year before Herbert Armstrong was sacked, and it was ten years before the Radio Church of God was officially incorporated.
This list comes in handy when compared to the earliest list of "truths restored" by Herbert Armstrong. An official publication of the Worldwide Church of God makes this claim:
"When Mr. and Mrs. Armstrong came among the Oregon Conference era of the Church of God (Seventh Day), the church had the right name, the law, the Sabbath and the tithing system."
"The WorldWide News", August 25, 1986, p. 5
Count those "truths" again. I see four, not three. So, right off the bat, Ron Weinland is wrong.

This can get real confusing real quick, so I have made a chart so you can more easily see what the COG7 believed in 1936 versus what the Worldwide Church of God printed in 1986 as the "18 essential, basic truths that God restored to His Church through our late Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong." 
Why did I choose the list published by the WCG in 1986? Because there are several lists of "18 truths restored" floating around out there. They do not all match up. So we went to the earliest, most official version we could find.

You will find the information for the COG7 list printed in A. N. Dugger's report in the 1936 Census on the Salem Oregon COG7 group's doctrinal beliefs, which I got from chapter 11 of a history on the Seventh Day Church of God on You will find the information for the WCG list printed in "The WorldWide News", August 25, 1986, p. 5.

I would draw your attention to the first 4 "truths" in the column on the right. These are the four, not three, "truths" that supposedly remained at the end of the "Sardis era". The ones HWA "restored" begin at number 5.

Church of God (Seventh Day), 1936
Worldwide Church of God, 1986
1.      The Bible was held to be the only inspired writing.
2.      The Holy Spirit is that which abides in the believer and not a third person.
3.      Christ was in the tomb exactly three days and three nights, rising at the end of the Sabbath.
4.      The apostolic organization and government must be followed today.
5.      The "Church of God" is the inspired Bible name for God's people.
6.       Prayer and anointing will save the sick.
7.       Laying on of hands (at baptism) is to be practiced.
8.       Lord's Supper is to be observed annually at the beginning of the 14th of Nisan.
9.       The Sabbath is to be observed from even to even.
10.    Payment of tithes on increase is obligatory.
11.   Participation in carnal warfare is condemned.
12.   The Law of clean and unclean meats is to be observed in this age.
13.   Habitual use of narcotics and habit-forming drugs, alcohol and tobacco is condemned.
14.   Under this gospel age the judgment is upon the house of God.
15.   The return of Christ will be literal, personal and visible, is imminent, and He will sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem, ruling the world with the righteous saints on the earth.
16.   Righteous saints will be resurrected at His second coming.
17.   There will be a final regathering of the dispersed nation of fleshly Israel.
18.   The dead are unconscious.
19.   The wicked dead are resurrected to final judgment, with no probation but will be eternally destroyed.
20.   The Third Angel's Message is a present day message.
21.   The seven last plagues are literal and fall at the end of the gospel age.

1.      The proper name of the one true church is the “Church of God”. (#5)
2.      The Ten Commandments and certain other Old Covenant laws are still binding today. (#9, #12)
3.      The correct day of worship is a seventh-day Sabbath. (#9)
4.       A tithing system is still mandatory for today. (#10)
5.      The Government of God would be in force on earth at Jesus’ return. Before then, the Elijah would restore the true government to the one true church. That government is one-man-rule, top-down.
6.      The true Gospel, restored after 1,900 years, is that Jesus will return and rule on earth. All other churches teach a false gospel.
7.      God is reproducing Himself. Man is to become god-beings; members of the Family of God.
8.      God is not a Trinity. God is a Family of separate beings.
9.      Man does not have an immortal soul. Death is soul-sleep.
10.   Man is separate from animal in that we have a different, non-conscious spirit within us.
11.   The one true church will rule with Christ forever, but the rest of the world will be brought into the God Family, too.
12.   The one true church is not the Kingdom of God on earth now; not until the return of Christ.
13.   No one comes to the one true church except those God the Father calls, and all who accept the call come to the one true church.
14.   The one true church is judged now, the rest of the world will be given a second chance at life and obeying God.
15.    The Millennium is literal, 1,000 years in length, and will be on earth.
16.   The Holy Spirit reveals the truth of God to our minds. Without the Holy Spirit, man is incapable of understanding or accepting the truth of God.
17.   Salvation is not assured yet. Christians are only “begotten” now – as adopted sons and heirs. We are not “born again” in this life – as natural children and inheritors.
18.   British-Israelism (Anglo-Israelism) is true.
19.   British-Israelism is the key to understanding prophecy.
20.   The Old Covenant Holy Days of Israel are mandatory for all people today.
21.   The Hebrew calendar is the one true sacred calendar.
22.   There are three tithes, not just one.

Notice the overlap in "truths". In the left-hand column, have colored the numbers red if they overlap the beliefs in the right-hand column.

#2 on the left is a rejection of the Trinity, corresponding to #8 on the right. 
#8 & #9 on the left show a clear adherence to the Hebrew calendar, corresponding to #21 on the right. 
#14 & #16 on the left both show the church in a different judgment than the general population, corresponding to the first part of #14 on the right. 
#15 on the left speaks of a literal, earthy Millennium, and corresponds to #5 & #15 on the right. 
#21 on the left speaks of a pre-Millennial Tribulation period, and works hand-in-hand with the literal, earthy Millennium, which corresponds to #11, #12, & #15 on the right.
#18 on the left speaks of soul-sleep, corresponding to #9 on the right.

Why, that's not three truths, as Ron Weinland said. That's not even four truths, as Armstrong said. That's nine truths.
In a list this short, those numbers are significant. Several additional "truths" that were supposedly lost by the COG7 and restored by Herbert Armstrong, that never were actually lost in the first place.

Now, just for the sake of being circumspect, let us see some conflicts.

#4 on the left speaks of government, but it conflicts with the style of government in #1 on the right. 
#19 on the left speaks to a judgment of the wicked but contradicts the second half of #14 on the right which says the wicked will have a probationary period.

As a last tidbit, if you are so inclined, you can see what Grace Communion International has to say about these "18 truths". In case you don't know who that group is - on April 16, 2009, the Worldwide Church of God changed its name to Grace Communion International. Same organization that put out the original list, but with a new name and a new outlook. Here is their own critique of their old material: "Eighteen 'Truths' Restored by Herbert Armstrong".


Continuing on from our earlier quote, Ron Weinland goes immediately on to say this about Herbert Armstrong's Elijah-like work:
"God prevented it from dying out by raising up Herbert W. Armstrong and his wife, Loma, in order to restore lost truth to the Church. Mr. Armstrong is well-known for restoring 18 foundational and basic truths of God that were necessary for the Church (for salvation) in order to be revived and restored to spiritual strength once again. God had strengthened and restored 21 foundational truths for the Church."
There were not merely three "truths" remaining, as Ron Weinland’s very true list of “truths” claims, but as we saw in our chart above there were no less than nine overlapping beliefs between the COG7 and the Worldwide Church of God. Three times as many as the highly accurate Elijah said.

What's more, if we disregard the list of 18 "truths" and go on to other beliefs held by Armstrongism that didn't make the list, that number only grows!

Here is where the conflicts get really interesting.
If you read the article from the August 1986 article of the WorldWide News, you will see many boisterous statements like this one, 
"What other church on earth has taught [past tense] that God is a Divine Family and the plan of God is to reproduce Himself through Divine Children, Christ being the first? Absolutely none!"
And this one, 
"The Church of God never understood this until Mr. Armstrong."
Now, think about this --
If Armstrongism is the only church in the history of the earth to teach a certain thing, then it cannot also be the second church to teach this thing. That only makes sense, right? Seems axiomatic. If you're the first you can't be the second.
But the Worldwide Church of God was not the first to teach that. What other church on earth did? Why, the Mormons, of course! The Mormon church, the Latter Day Saints, teach that very thing. And did well before Herbert Armstrong was even born. Now, I will grant the Mormon version is slightly different than the Armstrong version, but not by all that much.
Armstrong borrowed without asking this doctrine from the Mormons and added into his own set of doctrines.

Sets the lie to these “restored truths” does it not?


Knowing that he wishes to be seen as Elijah, Ron Weinland has a choice to make. He can either discredit his predecessor, or he can outshine him. To discredit Herbert Armstrong is to lay the axe to your own root. Too much rides on Armstrong's authority. So, Weinland must outshine him.

Having tipped his hat to Herbert Armstrong as a type of Elijah, Ron Weinland now needs to grow the list of "truths" and add to them. He must invent - errr, I mean "reveal" - more truths than Armstrong did. Weinland's list now exceeds 50 "truths". That's more than 30 additional "truths". Almost twice as many as the original. (<- The one.)
Well, if you are going to outshine your idol, do it with gusto, I say. 

Funny thing about this whole decision to discredit or outshine is that it puts Weinland into a sticky situation. You see, a few years ago, Ron Weinland opened his big mouth to bash a competing leader of a competing Church of God splinter group, and what he said is of great interest to this discussion.

I would call your attention to something pointed out by MikeDDTFA on I want to emphasize the erratic behavior of the man who claims to be Elijah.
Here is a snippet from the COG-PKG FAQ page, copied live from the website on 1/15/2010, regarding this Elijah business:
"The Living Church of God, under the leadership of Roderick Meredith, is also asleep spiritually. Roderick C. Meredith is guilty in his failure to acknowledge Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong as the prophesied Elijah to come, who would restore all things to God's true Church. In a sermon series where Roderick Meredith's own words are quoted from taped recordings, Ronald Weinland has exposed the leadership of the Living Church of God for refusing God's true witness of what God accomplished through His end-time apostle (See 'Sermon Archives' for 2001, beginning in a four part series on Oct. 27, 2001). In doing this, Roderick Meredith has denied God Himself."
If Rod Merideth doubted that Herbert Armstrong was the Elijah, and Ron Weinland has condemned Mr. Merideth as a denier of God Himself for this act, what then becomes of Ron Weinland for doing the exact same thing!? When Weinland says that he is the real Elijah, that is no different than saying Armstrong was not the real Elijah. How is that not denying God?
And then, Weinland goes on to say Armstrong was to restore "all things." All things? So, no long list for Ron? I'm aghast.

Do you see the hole he has dug for himself? If he doesn't deny or outshine Armstrong, then he can't be the Elijah, but if he does deny or outshine Armstrong he denies God by his own standard. It's a catch-22!

He says something at one place and time, then says something completely different in another place and time. This is not merely opportunism, it's madness and sheer hypocrisy!
A false prophet is always exposed by his own mouth.

Then again, this is how Ron Weinland has always been. He once threatened to disfellowship a man, specifically a member of his Toledo, Ohio congregation named Dale Gill, for claiming Jesus Christ is a created being, a thing which Weinland now professes to be a truth specially revealed to him by God!

Do you see how these Elijahs get ideas from others, incorporate it into their own doctrines, then claim it came from God?


Let us focus attention on Ron Weinland’s precise wording: “truths lost during Sardis.”
These truths were not “lost during Sardis” at all, whatsoever. Most were added, one might even say invented, during the years between 1846 and 1936 - most of them by Ellen G White. These were not truths held by the Apostles and guarded by the "true church". The group here referred to as the Sardis Era did not start with these truths and fall away from them. This is fantasy!

Not one of these things, not even the seventh-day Sabbath, was a held belief at the assigned beginning of this Sardis Era (which was defined as 1315 AD to 1934 AD, according to Herman Hoeh’s “True History of the True Church”). The seventh-day Sabbath doctrine was introduced to William Miller’s Adventists by one Ms. Rachel Oakes somewhere between March 1843 and autumn 1844. And from there it was passed down to Herbert Armstrong.

I have much more information for you on this topic from these three posts:
I believe these three links will fill you in sufficiently to prove all that I am claiming here. But if you are truly interested in the history and beliefs of the various eras, I urge you to read my study on “The True History of the True Church – Reviewed.” [the link works in IE and FireFox, but may be problematic in Chrome.] You may get a brief glimpse into its contents in this post:

Ron Weinland’s “truths” are false. His fantasies masquerade as truth.

(ISA. 5: 20-21) 20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

What can anyone say about a man who treats truth with such disrespect? Can we trust a single thing that comes from his mouth? What is “I am such and such a thing” from a man who disregards truth? Will such a person not blurt out whatever comes to mind? And why wouldn’t he? Would he hold back for fear of misleading the innocent? Hardly!
He concludes with unmitigated gaul:
“Yes, time will prove I am who I say I am. And that is my commission to proclaim such a message!”

Time will do no such thing, because time has respect for truth.

I want to share another point with you. 
Did you happen to notice something missing from their lists? What point of Christian doctrine could be missing from every one of these lists? It's the Gospel, of course! Not a single one of these lists, not a single criteria for being an "era of the true church", ever includes the Gospel. Never. Doesn't that strike you as odd the finished work of Christ on the cross is never included, but points like soul sleep are included? Which do you think gets more time in the Old Testament - the coming and victory of the Messiah, or the name of the true church?


This is precisely the “wait and see” game that Herbert Armstrong hobbled himself with.
“I want to tell you that all this weather disturbance means a terrible famine is coming on the United States that is going to ruin us as a nation inside of less than 20 more years. Alright, I stuck my neck out right there. You just wait 20 more years and see whether I told you the truth. God says, if a man tells you what’s going to happen, wait and see. If it does not happen, he was not speaking the word of God; he was speaking out of his own mind. You watch and see whether these things happen. You’ll see who’s speaking to you, my friends.”
-Herbert Armstrong; from an audio recording made in the late 1950’s
“Wait and see, my friends,” he would say, “then you will know who was speaking to you.” But we waited, and we saw a false prophet, and he died and came to nothing.
His prophecies have all failed. His empire crumbled. His greatness sold off in pieces. His kingdom divided among his servants.

Now Ron Weinland mimics his idol in this very same game. But I want you to never forget his own words, because a false prophet is always brought down by his own mouth:
“If by Pentecost…”
On March 29, 2008, Ronald Weinland blurted out this absolute statement:
“If by Pentecost [2008], I’m just going to make this real clear to everyone - if by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the U.S. and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and for most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on all of those interviews that I have held; to do less, ah.. well.. would be quite insane.”

-Ron Weinland, “Three More Weeks” sermon; timestamp 1 hour 28 minutes
“You’ll see who’s speaking to you, my friends.” None of what he so dogmatically stated came true… not even his promise to stand down. Failure from start to finish. But we must ask ourselves, what is the motivation of these things? Who is glorified by all of this bluster and nonsense? God?

(ROM. 11: 36) 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

God will be glorified when the truth comes out in the due course of time, but now, today, God is not glorified by this mess at all. Ron Weinland isn’t even glorified, though that is what was intended.

(ROM. 2: 23-24) 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

What, then of the manifold claims of how “God did this”? When the prophecies fail, that too is assigned to God. They blame God! They made it into God’s fault! “God was tricking Satan,” they say.

(ISA. 55: 11) 11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

I recommend you go to and read the section on “Ron Weinland’s False Prophecies.” Take some time to review the many changes in timelines, in exact dates set, in specific names mentioned, in destructions prophesied, and think about them.

(PRO. 22: 20-21) 20 Have I not written to you excellent things of counsels and knowledge, 21 that I may make you know the certainty of the words of truth, that you may answer words of truth to those who send to you?

Where is there any certainty in these shifting "truths"?
Knowing how Ron Weinland treats “truths” – rewriting them as it suits him; knowing how he went back on his word; knowing how Ron Weinland and Herbert Armstrong have utterly failed to prophesy anything correctly; knowing that Ron Weinland claims Herbert Armstrong – his own source of authority and anointing – was wrong in several major areas (including his own identity and even the very nature of Christ – big things); knowing that Ron Weinland and Herbert Armstrong have rewritten their own history several times, and now pass as fact a manufactured past; knowing they descend from Ellen G. White and William Miller, two people that even Herbert Armstrong and Ron Weinland both readily admit were false prophets; knowing that there are multiple people all claiming to be Elijah for this or that reason… how can any right mind, any open eye, any listening ear, any discerning heart, give this man the benefit of the doubt that he is a prophet/Witness/Elijah/Zerubbabel?

(ISA. 59: 3-4) 3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perversity. 4 No one calls for justice, nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and speak lies; they conceive evil and bring forth iniquity.

We are all encouraged to ignore all those blatant failures and just forge ahead anyway! Suspend your disbelief. Abide in Ron's word! Purchase your salvation from him! Just a few more years, a few more years, and you’ll see.


But if all these things are shown plainly as untruth, and we cannot trust the claims of a man, what shall we do? Get out of there! Abandon that man and leave him to his own end. And pray that God have mercy on his soul.

(I TIM. 6: 3-5) 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

Turn rather to God. Turn to His word.

(JOHN 17: 17) 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

(JOHN 8: 31-32) 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
Free at last! Eyes open. Ears hearing. Where, then, should we start within God’s word of truth?

(DEU. 18: 22) 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

I also recommend you read this article by Seeker of Truth: "Herbert W Armstrong: End-Time Elijah?"


angel said...


This article did not disappoint! Pointing out that there are many out there (falsely) claiming to be Elijah is exactly what people need to hear right now, as Ron Weinland desperately tries to reinforce the house of cards he has built by making another claim that he will not, of course, be able to live up to.

It reminds me of a painting project I was working on a couple of months ago, which involved applying glaze to a painted surface. You’ve got one chance to get it right, otherwise the mistake is there for all to see for all time, or you have to do it over. In an effort not to have to start over, I tried to “fix” my mistakes, and quickly found out why they say it can’t be done – the more I tried to cover them up, the more obvious they became; applying more glaze not only didn’t fix it – it made it infinitely worse. (Eventually I figured this out and started over).

Ron is trying to fix his problems by taking on more end-time roles, and he’s only making a bigger mess out of this. Failed prophecies can’t be fixed or covered up; it would be like putting a coat of paint on a condemned property – move back in and it’ll fall down on your head. It must be pointed out, again and again; as many times as it takes, that Ron (like his predecessor Herbert) has no real respect for the truth as he has proved time after time by making conflicting statements, “changing” doctrines that were previously presented as being revealed by God, blaming God for wrong doctrines/failed prophecies, etc.

I was reading that letter from Bob (and Connie) and reflecting on how he would hear things that bothered him and set them aside, until finally he could no longer ignore them. There are a lot of people out there like that, deep down they know something is wrong, but they’ve had blinders on and when you’ve been in the dark for a long time the Light hurts your eyes.

I’m so thankful for people here whom God has broken out of a cultic prison; I’m humbled because so many of them are so intelligent, much smarter than I, yet they were deceived and I know that there but for the grace of God go I… The church I was raised in had some cultic qualities, but ironically one of the things they emphasized was instrumental in guarding me from deception; they instilled in me a fear of false teachers, which made me so reluctant to put my faith in any pastor/teacher that I will forever only feel safe by trusting in God’s word alone.

Keep putting out this information; we are fishers of men, and the truth is the hook that will bring them in.

Can’t wait to read Part Two!

xHWA said...

"Ron is trying to fix his problems by taking on more end-time roles"

I agree with you.

I would like to add that the more I study into the things Ron does, the more I think he is just going over the same HWA material I am and pulling his ideas from them.
The parallels are just too blatant for me to conclude otherwise.
For all I know, he's pulling his ideas from us who expose HWA's nonsense. o_O

"I was reading that letter from Bob (and Connie)..."

I agree. Too many times I knew something was wrong and I buried it in my heart. I was often too afraid to ask anything for fear of what others would think of my foolish questions.

ASBereansDid is honored to help you and any others who are served by what we do. We pass all glory to God.

It's a terrible thing what Armstrongism has done to our trust. I personally deal with that, too. I am blessed to have met several people in my local area who have also gone through this. We help and support each other. I think fellowship is critical to people like us - even if we can't follow a religious system again.

I recommend that everyone like us should talk about it. In person is best; email will do. Even if we just come here and comment, please do talk with someone. I highly recommend contacting the Exit and Support Network.

Thanks Angel! God bless!

anon15:5 said...

I'm grateful to you guys for the running clock on your web-site of Weinland's predictions. It's not that I need it to know that he's a lying jackass, but it does serve as a daily reminder that the day will soon dawn when everyone, including him, will also know what a phony he is.

xHWA said...

You're very welcome, anon15:5! We'll pass that on to the One who deserves it.

Even though we would prefer otherwise, we are thankful to live in such times and to be blessed with the opportunity to oppose such evil.

Not everyone is supportive. Not everyone says "thank you." Even though fighting this good fight grates at us, and beats us down, we will not lose because our foundation is in the grace of Christ. It is an honor to to what tiny little bit we do here for our fellow children of God who are being enslaved and abused like we once were.

How much better to suffer abuse fighting against false prophets for the glory of Christ, than to suffer abuse in a high demand cult for the glory of liars and cheats.

You are very welcome. Glad we could be of any service at all. :)

xHWA said...

I want to make a small mention of the large work that other blogs do right along with us. We are a small part of a larger cause. We are thankful for them!

xHWA said...

In case anyone is curious...

From my searching, it appeared that the number two Elijah as far as devoted believers goes was not Ron Weinland at all but rather it was Branham.
I'd never heard of him before.

xHWA said...

About a correction I made to this post on 2-11-2010 at around noon EST:

"CORRECTION: -Taken from Robert Garringer's 1975 letter to Charles Hunting, as posted on the Exit and Support Network website."

I was contacted by Exit and Support Network about the original wording of this section of my post.

Oringinal wording of this section: "-Taken from a letter from “Bob” and “Connie” to Worldwide Church of God minister, Mr. Hunting; written on 4-19-1975. Originally posted on “Examination of Seventh-day Adventism and Ellen G. White” website."

ESN took exception to my use of the phrase "originally posted," and informed me that they and the Painful Truth had posted the letter before the ex-SDA site had.
Here is what ESN said to me:

"This letter was being snail-mailed out to many exiters at the time of the changes, so I'm sure many have it, but it was not "originally posted" on this ex-SDA site. It was sent out by the Ambassador Report publications (originally called Ambassador Review). It was posted on the ESN website in 1997 and probably on the Painful Truth before they got the ARs up as they had access to it. But PT site was launched shortly after ESN's site."

So I made the correction to point to ESN's site as opposed to the ex-SDN site.
Here is my reply to ESN:

"Perhaps there is some confusion as to my meaning when I said 'originally posted.' I didn't mean to convey the idea that this letter was historically first seen on the SDA website. I meant to convey the idea that I was pulling from material that was not my own, but was found on the SDA website."

Anonymous said...

Does anybody have a link to the radio broadcast where HWA made the statement about "sticking his neck out"?
I trust Richard Nichols who included that quote in his Biography, but to have people hear it in HWA's own words would mean even more.

-Putting the pieces together

xHWA said...

Start listening at 5:11 through 5:42.

“I want to tell you that all this weather disturbance means a terrible famine is coming on the United States that is going to ruin us as a nation inside of less than 20 more years. Alright, I stuck my neck out right there. You just wait 20 more years and see whether I told you the truth. God says, if a man tells you what’s going to happen, wait and see. If it does not happen, he was not speaking the word of God; he was speaking out of his own mind. You watch and see whether these things happen. You’ll see who’s speaking to you, my friends.”
-Herbert Armstrong