You’ve Left… Now What?

You’ve dared to question. You’ve dared to be honest with yourself. Huge steps. And then the really huge step… you left. But now what? Where is the truth? Who has it? Does anyone? How do know who has the truth? How do you find them?

Let me share with you what happened for me.

For me, what got me to questioning Ron Weinland’s teachings, was at FOT 2005 when he stated that Christ was created. I just about had a cow! I was attending with my Mother, and I remember that evening, she was talking to me, asking me questions, as if to see where I stood. I was shocked that she would even entertain the idea. But she seemed to accept is so quickly and so easily. I was beside myself.

Upon returning home, I continued to listen to Ron every Saturday and immersed myself in the Bible, in search of truth. I started by asking questions of my spouse, who had been New Covenant for years. Everything I heard seemed to make sense. Then I would call my Mother and ask her questions. Everything I heard seemed to make sense. How could that be? They believed differently, so how could they both seem to make sense?

I went around and around in circles for a good week like this, asking them questions. That’s when I realized I had gone to the wrong source in search of answers. They weren’t with my Mother. They weren’t with my spouse. They were with God. I told God: “I want to know the truth. I want your truth. I don’t care what it is, I have no preference… if we’re to keep holy days, fine. If we’re not, fine. It doesn’t matter, all I want is your truth.”

I spent, literally, ten solid months immersed in study, and I repeated my request to God frequently… and you know what? He granted it… and I’m not the only one who asked for this and received it. I’m convinced this is what’s required in order to receive the truth; truly and without preference, wanting God’s truth.

Ask yourself, and be honest; “Do I have a preference? Would it matter to me if “A” was the truth and not “B”, or vise versa?” This can be revealing, and being honest with yourself is highly respectable.

In case you’re thinking it, I’ll mention something my sister said when she was trying to figure our if Ron Weinland was God’s prophet or not. She said that some of us need others to teach us stuff because they know more than we do.

Well, it is true that some are more mature in the Word than others and that’s why I love Bible discussions with others, but the Holy Spirit is our teacher. Read these verses:

1Jn 2:26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Jn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth.

1Co 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

Mt 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

So, you’ve left… Now what? You ask yourself if you have a preference. If you do, then you have something to work out. Talk to God about it. If your sincere, I’m sure he will help you with that… and then when, or if, you don’t, you tell God, and you ask him to reveal his truth to you, you dig into your Bible and you see anew!

You don’t need to set out looking for a new teacher. Don’t be counting on someone else for your salvation. It is your responsibility to make sure you are receiving the truth. You can’t ride someone else’s coattail into the Kingdom. Don’t mistake what I’m saying, I’m not negating church, church and fellowship is great, I’m saying just don’t rely on someone else for truth. Rely on God and his Holy Spirit to teach you all things.

God bless you in your quest for his truth.

You may be interested in reading my articles: Do We Need To Be Taught By Others?, and: On Bereans & Poem From Ex-Member

On Bereans & Poem From Ex-Member

I wanted to post, here at ABD, this poem submitted to Mike at Don’t Drink the Flavor Aid (5.6.09), by Kirrily, who recently left Ron Weinland’s organization. I feel this poem can speak on a personal level to those still with Ron, and perhaps give them the strength to allow themselves to ‘dare to question’. Let me, if you will, repeat myself, yet again:

Act 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

More noble character? You mean it’s noble to question the teacher!?! Well, the Bereans questioned Paul every day! They examined the Scriptures every day, to see if what Paul said was true! They weren’t chastised or cursed for this, they weren’t accused of questioning or doubting God… they were praised. Why? - Because it is our responsibility to make sure we have the truth. - Because we cannot ride someone else’s coattail into the kingdom. Of all the people to question… they questioned Paul! Is there someone whom we see as so high on the totem pole, that we dare not question? Even so, one of noble character… questions.

Following is Kirrily’s poem:

Poem to Ron Weinland

Your words full of wisdom
They made perfect sense
The warmth of your smile
The safety in participation with you

Growth in mind, in spirit
The reality of where we were headed
No fear, just anticipation
Our days were full of tomorrow, not today

Our loved ones feared
But we were not diffused
Tomorrow was what mattered
Most friendships passed away
New ones were forged

Our past was what shaped us
Our present was reforming us
Our future was set
If only we did not give up

To conform, to transform
To allow the change, to see the change
Our lives in the present, only to prepare
Prepare for the Kingdom of God

We were fed, we were clothed
Nakedness in mind and spirit was not experienced
Friendship and warmth in preparedness
We were not alone

We had each other
We were prepared, ever learning
Steadfast, immovable in our belief
We were special, we knew what was to come

Arrogance of mind, of attitude
Pride
We did not see it in ourselves, only others
It was all around us, never in us

Looking down upon others
Calling it something else
Knowing ‘The Call’ wasn’t theirs – yet
Hoping that day would come

Their eyes were shut
Ours were open
Their minds were closed
Ours were enlightened

They could not see
We saw clearly
They were in deception
We were in truth

Attitudes shifted, timelines changed
Things were suddenly unclear
Was this still the truth?
Did we fail to see?

We repented, we were wrong of course
We stood firm
We did not give up
We wanted, had to have, total resolve

Time went by
We adjusted our attitude
Looking forever inward
Knowing we must not doubt
Life went on

One day it hit
One day was all it took
To look into the eyes of others
The feeling of superiority suddenly recognized, obviously unfounded
It was shocking to see what we had become

Questions needed to be asked
Questions were not answered
We were told we could not longer see
That God was no longer with us

Friendships forged through separation from the world
Ended, were broken
No longer part of the truth, we were told
Suddenly, we were alone

We had the truth, we would not let go
It was only our leader
It was only our belief
He was not who he said he was

Looking for a teacher
Looking for food, finding none
The mess that was WCG
So many daughters, so who is really the whore?

The 10 is what we have now
The basic, the unchanging, Gods Law
The truth is what we seek
The truth is still not found

Time passed
Healing was slow
Time to recover
Time to awaken

The pain, the agony
True humbling took place
Brought to nought
The foundation was all that remained

A counterfeit is barely recognized from the true
First you must know what is true
Who is true
By what they say coming to pass, not failing
Twice

Acknowledging we believed a lie
Believed a witness, a prophet
Consumed with his own truth
A truth he believed was given, he was never giving up

A witness, a prophet
Believing his own self
Believing what was ‘given’
Until the end

We wish him no harm, no foul
Only wishing, hoping that no others are hurt
The hurt we carry with us,
The hurt we can hardly bear

What we saw in him as humility, became arrogance
What we saw as steadfast, became delusion
What we saw as the truth, was actually his own truth
What we saw as belonging, was actually being lost

Cursing who he believes as being the blind
To death
The mockers, the deceived
From his point of view, are not they too – potential Children of God under PKG?
Yet – they are cursed to die

True humility
Is admitting when you are wrong
Those of us who left, were humbled, we admitted our error
Those who remain, ignore their pride
Its harder to leave, than to stay
It’s harder to admit you are wrong, than stay in deception

We were taught pride is our ultimate enemy
We thought pride was far from us
Pride in fact, was what we lived, what we were, what we became
Leaving brought us true humility
True knowledge of Pride

Admission of being wrong
Not easy, not safe
Pride is what prevents
Acknowledgment of being wrong.

Pride is Ronald Weinland
We see you
We still love you
Just stop – let the people go

You are not the truth
You do not have the truth
You are wrong
You are false

The pain you have caused was not intentional
The agony you yourself bear is great
Just acknowledge you’re wrong
Don’t let your pride win.

Pride is what you are
Pride is what you became
Pride is you’re here and now
It will not be allowed to be your future

The End is nigh
That, we still believe
But yours must be closer

We forgive you
But this lie can not continue

Kirrily
May 6, 2009

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on the current understanding of each author. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Acts 17:11

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HEBREWS 4: SABBATH OR KINGDOM?

What is Hebrews 4 about? Is it about the Sabbath? What if I  told you it is about the Kingdom of God? What’s interesting is that this is the very thing Paul is trying to clarify. These people think he’s talking about the seventh day Sabbath, and Paul tries to explain that he’s not, but that he’s talking about the Kingdom of God.

So today, we’re going to examine the word “rest” in Hebrews 4. At the bottom of this first section are the Greek word definitions for the various words translated as “rest”.

 

1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his abode (G2663) still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

[He says the promise of entering His abode. What promise have we received? The promise of the Kingdom through the Holy Spirit, which is a deposit, a guarantee. He’s not speaking of the promise of a Sabbath. Clearly this is his Kingdom that is promised.]

2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.

[Ron Weinland says in his sermon, God’s plan through the Sabbath (3.15.03): “They couldn’t believe it because it wasn’t mixed with the Holy Spirit.” The problem with that statement from God’s supposed “final witness” is that what he says is, again, contrary to the Bible, as are many of his teachings. It’s not required that you have the Holy Spirit before you can believe! You get the Holy Spirit AFTER you believe! Scripture says we believe by faith. It does not say we believe by the Holy Spirit! How can God’s “final witness” be so wrong? Why does he teach a different gospel? Why does he teach a different Jesus?]

3 Now we who have believed enter that abode (G2663), just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my abode’ (G2663). ”Although (G2543) his work has been finished since the creations of the world.

[So what’s going on here? Is God saying they shall never enter his Sabbath, with Paul following up with: although his work has been finished since the creation of the world? Well that doesn’t make sense. Remember what I said about fractals in my Bible Symbology article? That is a helpful tool in understanding scriptures: does it fit the fractal, the symbology? God was talking about the Israelites in verse 3, right? And he was talking about them not being permitted to enter His abode, speaking of the promised land. They wondered the desert for 40 years because of there disobedience, because of their lack of faith. So this statement isn’t about Sabbath. So Paul is saying here that these guys are thinking he is talking about the seventh day, and say he’s not, because God’s work has been finished since the creation of the world, and then in verse 4 reminds them of what that scripture says:]

4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: ‘on the seventh day God ceased (G2664) from all his work.

[He then refers again to the above mentioned verse, pointing out the difference, and that he’s not talking about Sabbath.]

5 And again in the passage above he says “They shall never enter my abode (G2663).

[Now in verse 6 he tries to explain the point: that the promise still remains, that the physical promised land wasn’t all there was.]

6 So it STILL REMAINS that some will enter it [the spiritual promise land], and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in [to the physical promise land], because of their disobedience.

7 God again marks out a certain day, today (G4594) [this day, current or just passed, now, at present]. When he spoke through David: (Ps. 95:7) ‘Today (G4594), if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.’

[i.e. whenever you hear his voice. Whatever day it is that you hear his voice.]

[Ron Weinland, in the above mentioned sermon, tells his congregation that this word, ‘today’ G4594, means Sabbath. This is not true. Look it up for yourself. This is one of the reasons I tell people that it’s their responsibility to find out if what someone tells them is true or not.]

8 For if Joshua had given them “THE” settling down to colonize rest (G2664), God would not have spoken later about ANOTHER day.

9 So there STILL remains, a Sabbath-rest, a repose (G4520) of Christianity (as a type of heaven) for the people of God – the spiritual promised land; [not the seventh ‘day’ but, the seventh ‘thousandth year’.]

10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. For Joshua, having entered into His abode (G2663), settled down to colonize, ceased from his occupational work (G2664) (of leading the Israelites). [i.e. it’s not the physical promise land that promised land that he is talking about, but the spiritual promised land,] just as (G5618) God did from His own (work, of creation). [i.e. and it’s not the Sabbath. But rather, the spiritual promised land. This physical promised land isn’t “THE” promise, there remains another].

11 Let us be eager therefore to enter into that abode (G2663) [of rest] [the spiritual promised land], that no one will fall in the same example of disobedience.

GREEK WORD DEFINITIONS ( for the words translated in this chapter as “rest”):

2663: katapausis (noun) reposing down, i.e. abode

2664 kata pauo (verb) settle down, I.e. (literally) to colonize, (figuratively) to (case to) desist

4520 sabatismos (noun) repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven)

4594 semeron    This day, today, current or just passed, now, at present

There is a link on the right to an online Interlinear, one Greek, the other Hebrew. Please take advantage of it.

 

So, essentially, Paul is saying:

I’m not talking about the Sabbath. I’m not talking about the physical promised land. I’m talking about the the fact that there still remains a promised rest: “THE” rest, the spiritual promised land, the Kingdom of God.

1 Therefore, since the promise of entering His rest/kingdom still stands, let us be careful that none of you  be found to have fallen short of it.

2 For we, also, have had the gospel preached to us, just as the Israelites did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard it didn’t have faith.

3 Now we who have believed enter His rest/abode (the promised future spiritual event), just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest/abode (the past promised physical event).’ You’re thinking I’m talking about the “seventh day Sabbath rest”, but I’m not, his work has been finished since the creation of the world.

4 You know what I’m talking about…   the scripture that says ‘on the seventh day God ceased from all his work.

5 And then we have the passage above that says “They shall never enter my abode. This is speaking of the ‘physical promised land’, not the ‘Sabbath’.

6 See what I mean? Do you see the difference? There is still a promised land, a future promised land, a spiritual promised land. So it STILL REMAINS, that some will enter His abode/rest… that is; the ‘spiritual promised land/rest’ (future), and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in to the ‘physical promised land/rest’, because of their disobedience (past).

7 God again marks out a certain day, today, when he spoke through David: ‘Today, right now, whenever, …if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.’

8 I’m not talking about the ‘physical promised land/rest,  for if Joshua had given them '”THE” ‘settling down to colonize’ rest, God would not have spoken later about ANOTHER day; the day we enter the ‘spiritual promised land/rest’.

9 So you see; there is STILL a Sabbath-rest for the people of God – it’s the ‘spiritual promised land’ at the seventh thousandth year; 

10 For Joshua, when he entered into God’s abode/rest, (the physical promised land), rested from his work of leading the Israelites, just as God did from His own work of creation. So I’m not talking about the ‘Sabbath day’ rest, rather the ‘Sabbath millennium’ rest, the ‘spiritual promised land’ rest. This physical promised land isn’t “THE” promise… there remains another… that of the spiritual promised land. God’s Kingdom.

11 Let’s be eager therefore to enter into that spiritual abode of rest, the spiritual promised land, that no one will fall in the same example of disobedience.

 

I hope this helps you to understand what Paul is actually trying to explain here.

I know you see it every time you read an article here, but please, read again my close that I add at the end of each blog, because it IS very important that you are aware of it.

God bless you in your quest for truth.

 

Picture credits: Boat – unknown

planet picture – Vlad Gerasimov of VladStudio - http://www.vladstudio.com/home/

The Mirror

I was asked to write something to help some people see the difference between what the bible says, and what the HWA Mini-Me’s were teaching. I’m inclined to think it was an exercise in futility, but I did it anyway.

I started crawling out of my mind trap around 1989 when I began researching authority, because I had a so-called minister that was making my life a living hell, as if it wasn’t that already. I abandoned the church before it changed its doctrines because I had already found gaping holes in their arguments. Because of this, it has appeared to me that arriving at a different theological view is the singular route to getting the O.C. shackles off, so it has seemed logical to concentrate on this. But I find the personal accounts far more interesting.

Someone keeps asking me if I’ve read the current Armstrong Survivor post, saying, “you’ve got to read it, it’s amazing how much you have in common with AS and Aggie A.” So maybe I’ll begin talking a little more from the witness perspective since the bible proofs are pretty much huffing and puffing against a stone wall. The only ones that can save the deluded are themselves.

Beyond the general sense of futility, it seems blogging can be cathartic, so maybe there is some reason to continue. Talking to real live human beings, however cloaked in pseudonyms, is a new experience for me. I definitely have my tortuous-shell defenses engaged if I need to interact with another person in the real world. This is a remarkable place where one can approach honesty in a way that has no precedence, at least in my experience.

My nerves were pretty well fried before I hit puberty; frequently, at church, my right leg would quit working, and I’d have to lift it with my hands to get across the floor. My face was probably bright red with embarrassment. The congregation looked at me out of the corners of their eyes, and closed up their little huddles to present me with a wall of backs to isolate themselves from the church outcast.

It was the same story in all the church areas I attended; Olympia; Tacoma; Spokane; Seattle; Phoenix; Pasadena; and to the Canadians, credit, Vancouver BC was almost OK. They might not have wished to show discourtesy to the jittery American since I was a guest in their country. The similarity in behavior, in different areas says; the ‘cause’ was their common beliefs.

Church philosophy didn’t believe in psychological disorders, apart from spiritual corruption. So I’m sure I was a demonic presence as far as they were concerned. The church believed psychologists to be on the same level as voodoo priests. The church thought they were the only ones with all the answers. They would teach crap that caused people to create an environment of tension and a world of paranoia, poverty and shame for their families, and deny any of the human-collateral-damage, qualified help.

Actually, kids in general ostracize other kids who are “weird,” but not to the extent of OWCG kids. You’d think that adults would mature out of that kind of superficial judging. They certainly didn’t in the church of Herbert. I was too weird to have friends at school, and any kid who so much as talked to me at church would have lost substantial social status. I never did have a friend as I grew up, and never once did a single one of them waver from their attitude of disgust and condescension.

Now I have to ask the question; whose fault was it? This is a no-brainer. Kids learn and perpetuate the cultures they absorb from their environment; so when you have condescending, know-it-all, self-important leaders; you get condescending, know-it-all, self-important lay members; and of course kids of lay members.

Someone once said, “If you want to know how you really are, look at your children, they’re a mirror that hides no flaw.” It is a weightier flaw, the church of Herbert had, than the flaws they focused so much upon, (strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel). And I had a broad enough sample to conclude that the mirror reflected the same hideous image regardless of where the church of Herbert might have been located.

Food For Thought

I was reading the May 10, 2008 post; Can I hear an Amen?!!!, on the Post WCG Life and Theology blog, which led me to the Would Jesus be a Christian?, post on the TILL HE COMES Blog, and found two statements I really liked in the comments.

The first was from a commenter; Mark, who, regarding Christianity and works, said;

“In short, works is not a good theology,
but sound theology is never devoid of good works.”

This seems to be one of the Old/New Covenant (Contract) stumbling blocks for Herbertites. They confuse the two Contracts and don't really understand ‘Works’ & ‘Faith without Works.’ They put the 'horse before the cart.' I won't go into all that since there are already a few articles posted on the subject.

The second was a quote that Jim, another commenter; left which was that of;

C. H. Macintosh, who said;

“God has not confined Himself within the narrow limits of any school of doctrine – high, low or moderate. He has revealed Himself. He has told out the deep and precious secrets of His heart. He has unfolded His eternal counsels, as to the Church, as to Israel, the Gentiles, and the wide creation. Men might as well attempt to confine the ocean in buckets of their own formation as to confine the vast range of divine revelation within the feeble enclosures of human systems of doctrine. It cannot be done, and it ought not to be attempted. Better far to set aside the systems of theology and schools of divinity and come like a little child to the eternal fountain of Holy Scripture, and there drink in the living teachings of God’s Spirit.” (C.H. Mackintosh, The Mackintosh Treasury, Miscellaneous Writings by C.H. Mackintosh, (Loizeaux Brothers, New Jersey, 1976), 605.)

God is not a religion. Religion is man’s version of God’s Word, a set of rules based on mans interpretation of God’s Word.

This is an important issue. We should NEVER permit another person to stand between us & God, between us & the Kingdom, our salvation, & never rely solely on your source of information, trust your Bible; it’s YOUR responsibility to validate information. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom. God teaches us all things;

Jesus said; Jn.6:45 “It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." (Is.54:13).

1 Jn. 2:26-27 "I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit-just as it has taught you,-remain in him.

Ron Weinland: Setting Up House in Europe?

A bit of interesting information; I received an e-mail from a reader who had noticed that Ron's Domain Name Server's had changed.
I went and checked it out, and sure enough, his four websites are no longer US based. Was any one else aware of this? Is this old news?

Here's what I found:

1) cog-pkg.org - The church website DNS is based in Switzerland.
2) the-end.com - The Book website DNS is also based in Switzerland.
3) ronaldweinland.com - Ron's Blog DNS is based in the UK.
4) biblical-truth.com - The HWA website is also based in the UK.
Check it out for yourself: SELF SEO

So, the big question: why has Ron moved the websites? Did he say anything about this in any announcements? If he did, I missed it. But then, I did stop listening to him.

He told everyone there was no safe place to go during the final Great Tribulation, to stay where we are. So, again, I ask; why has he moved the websites to Europe? What's going on in his head? Why two in the UK, and two in Switzerland? That's a bit odd. Is he covering his bases "just in case"? When did he make the switch? Perhaps around the time the web design changed? I don't know if there's a way to find out how long the sites have been in Europe or not, but it would be interesting to know when he made the change.

Perhaps this is all part of the exit plan... cut ties with the US... you know; just in case he was wrong? Perhaps "W" is correct, and the Weinlands had no intention of giving back any money... any more that he intended to step down when his prophesies failed. Although, personally, even with the plan "B", I can't help but wonder if he intends to maintain power behind the scenes. Despite what the plan may be, Ron doesn't seem like one to easily give up control - over the people - over the money...and Switzerland... nice set up there for people who want to hide money. Didn't one of the blogs speculate on 'Swiss bank accounts' a while back?

Ron Weinland: Power/Money Hungry?

Something I was reading in the Weinland Watch Archives (3.25.08). I think it warrants an unearthing, in light of things.

What I read, sure rings true, and explains a lot! (Decide for yourself.) Same man different congregation! People beware!

You can read it in its entirety at A Former Member of Weinland's UCG Congregation Speaks Out, here is an excerpt: (all emphasis, that of Weinland Watch)

"Ron started giving sermons on how the minister is in charge, how God works through the minister, how God has a government and it should be followed, yada yada yada. you’ve all heard that song before. Towards the end of the year, he gave a “special sermon”. We were all to pay close attention. It was going to affect us very deeply. Well, he laid it all on the table and, to make a long story short, demanded we either follow him or get out. He even passed out a short survey which each of us had to fill out, one per household, to see what our attitudes were.

At the end of the sermon he asked us all to stay while he went over the surveys. He came back after a long while and had a hand full of envelopes. He asked two of us to pass them out to the families they were labeled for. Not everyone got one. Both of the young gentlemen who passed them out got one. I got one. Inside were letters explaining how we were no longer members in good standing, based upon our answers to the surveys. The board members were disfellowshipped, however (all but the guy who ran the sound equipment, of course because he would be needed). We all had a good long time afterwards to decide how we felt, the room split itself right down the middle by ’stay’ or ‘go’. And that was the end of the day.

The next day, I got a call from Mr. Weinland to tell me in person that he had misread my..."

Another excerpt:


"Here’s the side of the story from the board members: Ron was not legally allowed to take the money according to the byrules of the church corporation. Ron very loudly and angrily accused the board of insubordination and etc by refusing to go along with his order to spend the money on publications. Ron had retained a lawyer and was actively trying to take the money. In order to do that, he had to fire the board and change the byrules. This he did by disfellowshipping them. The board said phooey on the money, this isn’t about the money, you can have it and whatever curse..."

Read more here: A Former Member of Weinland's UCG Congregation Speaks Out

BE SURE TO READ THE COMMENT POSTED BY WEINLAND WATCH BELOW, FOR MORE INSIDE INFORMATION!

If You Are New To/Concidering Ron Weinland part 2

I used to think Ron REALLY believed all these lies he's been passing off as truths. I no longer believe that. I believe he is an OUTRIGHT con.

I would like you all to read some excerpts of e-mail exchanges between his church and a perspective member.

The original location and full letters are at Weinland Watch.

First, it's been heavy on my mind, that Ron seems to teach the Gospel of Sabbath, rather than the Gospel of Jesus. It seems to me, he talks more about sabbath than Jesus. It appears Sabbath, Tithing and Baptism play an important role in Ron's retirement plan.

In the excerpts of the following e-mail exchange, we discover that Ron's church is actually a financial endeavor/a get-rich-quick scheme, (which is working out quite well for him and his family). We learn here that Tithing is a prerequisite to baptism!

Here is an excerpt with comments from Weinland Watch. Make note of the items that I, (As Bereans Did blog, mark in RED) :

This was the second series of exchanges the prospective member had with the church.

Hello [name]
The meetings conducted by Ronald Weinland are for a Sabbath service and for those who are in the true Church of God or who are being called by God and have responded by turning to obedience in observing the seventh day Sabbath and are committed to keeping/obeying it as God has commanded. Only those who are observing the Sabbath and tithing can be invited to attend such services. If you are one of those people then you need to let us know if you have such commitment and how you are observing the Sabbath, and if you are doing so, we would be glad to extend an invitation to you.

Read this and reply back to this e-mail so we have a record of our conversations. We need contact information such as full address and phone numbers so a minister can contact you.

Sincerely
[Name of Evangelist #2]

the Church of God-PKG

The church’s form letter on baptism follows. You will note that the prospective member is required to divulge personal contact information. Meanwhile, two different evangelists have been in contact with the same member. There was no response to further inquiries from the same member until the following came through:

Hello [name]

I am trying to schedule you for baptism. We cannot locate the cashiers check you say you sent. Reply back to this e-mail telling us what name and date it was sent. I have to verify that it was applied properly.

thanks
[name of Evangelist #2]

The prospective member did not send any such check in, nor did the person say they sent any such check in. The evangelist was informed of this in the responding email. Additionally, the member requested to attend a baptism in their area, and was not given any permission. The prospective member then went on to request a receipt or a confirmation of their membership in the church before they would start sending money (and rightfully so). This person is now seriously questioning the motives behind the church.

Here was the church’s response to the prospective member’s request for information on tithing (they asked if it was 10% per annum or 10% per pay period).

Hello [name]

A tithe is that which involves a person’s obedience to God in giving God His tithe (10 percent) of income. This is a tithe of one’s net income (after taxes). The taxes are not in our control, but belong to the government to which we are all subject. We have no power over that portion of our income that is taken as taxes, and Jesus Christ said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. We are responsible for what is under our control and management. God’s tithes are sent to Church of God-PKG, P.O. Box 14447, Cincinnati, OH 45250 U.S.A.

You can find more information in sermons on our website www.cog-pkg.org relating to the topic of Tithing. Feb 19th 2005 titled “A Relationship with God and Tithing”

Sincerely [name of Evangelist #2]
the Church of God-PKG

As the prospective member noted, they were initially requesting information on baptism, and then got manipulated into requesting information on tithing. This was the exchange that occurred after the prospective member requested the exact details of the baptismal location planned in their area for March 22:

This was the church’s response:

Hello [name]

A tithe is that which involves a person’s obedience to God in giving God His tithe (10 percent) of income. This is a tithe of one’s net income (after taxes). The taxes are not in our control, but belong to the government to which we are all subject. We have no power over that portion of our income that is taken as taxes, and Jesus Christ said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. We are responsible for what is under our control and management. God’s tithes are sent to Church of God-PKG, P.O. Box 14447, Cincinnati, OH 45250 U.S.A.

You can find more information in sermons on our website www.cog-pkg.org relating to the topic of Tithing. Feb 19th 2005 titled “A Relationship with God and Tithing”
Sincerely [name of Evangelist #2]
the Church of God-PKG

A further request by the prospective member on whether or not they could attend the March 22 baptismal drive met with this response:

Hello [name]

Thank you for your e-mail. Can you help with this matter, as we cannot find a tithe record. I see you expected to mail the tithe in our past e-mails. Reply back to this e-mail as this is a prerequisite to baptism.
Sincerely
[name of Evangelist #2]

The prospective member then replied with an apology that they did not realize tithing was a prerequisite to baptism. The prospective member did not receive a reply to that email, and has not heard from the church since.

As we see from this exchange, the only thing that appears to be on the minds of church staff; is your money. So...if you wish to purchase a membership in Ron's church, (yes, Ron's church, NOT God's), you know what to do.
Fortunately, God does not require you to purchase baptism!!

If You Are New To Ron Weinland, & Even If You're Not! It's Urgent You Read This! (Edited)

Reader...It is so very important that you read this and the other posts on this blog. What I'm asking of you is a big Job because I don't recommend you just read, but, if you are truly looking to please God, Pull out your Bible, a notebook devoted to your studies, or better yet, a 3 ring binder with dividers for varying subject matter. Find more scriptures of your OWN. Not just mine or Ron's!

I will compare those who pull out their Bibles and get the 3 ring binder with dividers with the virgins of Matthew 25 who were prepared with plenty of oil for their lamps, and those who read this post but do not pull out their Bibles or get 3 ring binders with dividers with the virgins who were not prepared with plenty of oil for their lamps.

Jeremiah 30:21 For who is he who will devote himself to be close to me?

This is so important! Don't just read these words, hear them.
Those of you who are not new to Ron, I must tell you frankly, no soft-soaping;
You have not been paying attention. Have you read his book? If so, then why have you not realized that he is not a prophet? Look at the top right of this page. See what it says?
Deut. 18:22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

What is a prophet? A prophet is an Oracle of God. A Prophet is the messenger of God, passing on the words of God, words that God gave to be told to the people. A prophet is not a "guesser" of God's will. God TELLS the prophet. And what God says, happens EXACTLY as God says.

What Ron has said has NOT taken place or come true, because his message is NOT a message the LORD has spoken. He has spoken presumptuously! Do NOT be AFRAID of him.

Open the book, (2008 GFW). Turn to page 90. Look at what Ron says in the 1st paragraph, about half way down;

"Before we cover those events, which are the subject of another chapter, we need to look more closely at the events that precede the last seal, events which are pronounced by Seven Thunders during the time of the Sixth Seal."

According to Ron's 'prophesies', we are now in the 7TH SEAL!
The 6TH is OVER!!!
What did Ron say was the FIRST SEAL!?
Page 91, about half way down, under

"The First Thunder;


'September 11, 2001 was a day that thundered so loudly that the
very mention of it is recognized all over this world. Mention that
day anywhere on earth and people know what happened.
However, people do not yet recognize the real meaning behind
why this day is so vastly important."

Go ahead and read it all, and notice also on the next page;

#1: The First Thunder is the beginning terror of war for the
end-time. This is war that is prophetic for the end-time.

Again, according to Ron, we are now in the 7TH Seal!
According to Ron, EVERYONE knows what 9/11 is!
According to Ron, on page 91;

"All Seven Thunders will increase in intensity...but at
certain times one will be much louder than all the others. Each
time that one of the Seven Thunders is much louder (far more
pronounced) than all the others..."

Which Thunders were LOUDER, or even AS LOUD AS 9/11?!
Which Thunders had the entire world glued to their televisions as 9/11 did?!
NONE! Because there was nothing. There were NO thunders at all!
Ron is a FALSE prophet. He is NO prophet of God's.

Okay, I've covered the facts and it just so happens that Ron has spoken, in his sermon today (4/26/08), on the very subjects I cover in my posts here. I highly recommend you look very closely at these.

Pray before you start. Tell God you want to know the truth, that you want to please Him. Ask Him to guide you and reveal His truth to you.

May God bless you in your search for His truth.

You should also check out Shadows Of WCG's post of transcriptions from todays sermon, and read what you heard today, followed by "J's" comments which point out Ron's backpedaling, and pushing forward of the time-line. [Sorry, the Shadows blog is no longer available]

Also follow the link "J" provides for Weinland Watch's take. Both MUST reads.

And my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE: Be sure to BOOKMARK it! Ron, declaring in an embedded file on the Weinland Watch page, that he will step down if...

In it, Ron says;

“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.”

Thanks to Weinland Watch, you can download the sermon here, Three More Weeks.