Response to SJS (Jack) [How Do We Know What Covenant We Are Keeping?]

Smilin’JackSprat,

My apologies; sometimes life just gets hectic and you can’t get things done as soon as you would like.

You said I answered incompletely with a partial quote from Hebrews 8:7 by not including V8. As I see it Verse eight says the same thing.

If there had been nothing wrong with the first, no place would have been sought for another
By saying ‘fault was found with the people’, it is saying there is fault with the OC. What I mean is, it shows what’s wrong with the OC, that it could not be kept perfectly, therefore condemning man; Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
It is not mans fault that we are sinful. No man is without sin. We were sold as slaves to sin; Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
Only by keeping the OC perfectly can one be found righteous, but since no man is without sin – it shows that no man can keep it flawlessly. If there was nothing wrong with the OC and the fault was solely that of the people, it would mean people are capable of being without sin, that is; perfect, and therefore, could be found righteous by flawless observance of the OC, but that simply is not possible.
With the OC one is responsible for his own salvation, and condemned for his sins, because under the OC there is no remission of sins, Christ does not pay our debt. If one gathered wood on the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death, no mercy, no forgiveness, and now that he has sinned he is condemned [Nu. 15:32-36]. He will not inherit the kingdom.
Since it’s not possible to be without sin, if God is to have a family, there must be another way for the debt to be paid, which the perfect Christ Jesus paid in our stead.
With the NC there is mercy and forgiveness, remission of sins. If we confess our sins, he will forgive us from all unrighteousness. [1 Jn. 1:19].
The OC did its job, it revealed sin, and it led us to Christ, through whom salvation could be gained.
Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
Rom 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.
Rom 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.


430 years after Abraham
Abraham was pre-Moses, what law did he obey? The Ten Commandments, the Law of Moses, had not been given yet. What law did the fallen angels break? Any word from God’s mouth is law, but it is only law for the one(s) it is given. If he tells Moses & Aaron to deal with Pharaoh, then it is their law, no one else’s. If he tells the Israelites to do something(s), it is their law, no one else’s, unless God says so. If He tells Ezekiel to do some specific things with hair and cooking food with human excrement in the site of others, it is Ezekiel’s law and no one else’s.
Abraham’s law was whatever God told him to do, and God credited Abraham with righteousness by his faith. God had not given a contract of works; this did not come about until 430 years after Abraham. It went from Faith in Abraham’s day (earlier and later), to a law of Works at Sinai, and returned to Faith upon Christ’s sacrifice of his life on the cross, for the payment of the debt we incurred by our sins.
Again; Abraham was credited righteousness by faith. Then, with the out-of-control Israelites, he gave them rules to follow. It didn’t matter if their attitudes were undesirable - they just needed to do what they were told to do. After Christ came, it returned to faith.
The NC is heart and mind – inner law. The OC is hands – outer law, about doing, regardless of attitude.
Paul tells us that with God’s contract, as with a man’s contract, you cannot add to or take away. This tells us that the NC is NEW and not an altered OC or the same OC. If there is no NEW Covenant what was Jesus doing in Mt. 5?
He said, “You have heard [this thing] but I tell you [this other thing]. Was he undermining the OC or was he preparing them for the difference in the NC from that of the OC?
He was telling them that actions were not enough – that it was ONLY washing the outside and leaving the inside filthy. The OC did not require purity of heart and mind – only obedient actions. Of course the actions could not be done flawlessly – thus cursing those, who were subject to it, to eternal condemnation.

Jesus was showing the difference
He was showing that purity of heart and mind were of utmost importance – clean on the inside, also clean on the outside, unlike OC; clean on the outside only – filthy on the inside. Under the OC one is cut off from Christ and therefore there is no remission of sins. Only through the NC, through Christ, is there remission of sins; grace, mercy, forgiveness, cleansing.
So again, because the OC cursed man to eternal condemnation, the debt would have to be paid in a different way if God is to have a family. That is where Jesus came in. He would keep the OC law perfectly (impossible for anyone else – since no man is without sin) and thus be found pure, and therefore, worthy to pay man’s debt in full.
The OC proves we cannot save ourselves. All of this teaches us that we need God, that without him we are nothing, and can do nothing. We are saved ONLY by him; by his grace, mercy and forgiveness in the payment of our debt, by Christ Jesus.
The OC and NC are not the same covenant. God said it was a NEW covenant and he said the NC would not be like the old one. How can it be a NEW Covenant if the only thing that’s changed is that it is now written in the hearts and minds of the people? It can’t, not if it won’t be like the old one.
Our actions do not, and cannot, save us
But our belief, our faith produces actions. It is the belief, our faith that saves us.
Keeping Sabbath or a Saturday Sabbath, observing holy days – those don’t save us. Keeping TEN COMMANDMENTS don’t save us. There is NO action that can save us. Only by our belief and faith in Christ Jesus are we saved – because that means we acknowledge that our value is in his love for us, that without him we are nothing and can do nothing and that we accept HIS payment of OUR debt. No action can save us, because no man is without sin. The penalty for sin is death. There is NO way around it. The debt must be paid, so, either we pay it (eternal death), or Christ does (eternal life).
We all sin. If we fail in one single way, we are guilty. We are no less sinful than a murderer, or an adulterer or idolater. It doesn’t matter the sin – it all results in eternal death --- unless we believe in Christ Jesus, in which case, our debt is paid in full.
There are two different contracts
Jesus showed the difference in Mt.5, and we see that the Law of Moses has long been a stumbling block in; 2 Co. 3:1-18
V15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Were the Pharisees or teacher of the law on the path to the kingdom of God? No, MT. 5:20, 23:13.
Mt. 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
The OC would have to be kept flawlessly –or- turn to Christ and the NC.
Mt. 23:13 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

What Is The Time Table For Proof?

You astound me Ron.

You astound me with the silly things you say...
saying people want proof - like it's such a ridiculous thing to require proof, when, otherwise, anyone could come forward and claim to be a prophet of God and lead God's children, by the nose, anywhere they so choose.

What are you trying to tell your followers when you say to them 'people want PROOF'? Of Course we want proof. We want the proof you said would come. That is how a prophet is proved true or false.


It has all fallen flat on it's face. I can imagine you and your crew scanning the news and the internet daily, grasping at straws, "Here's something! This could be something! Look! There was a flood!" and in the meantime; y ou pretend that God is revealing things to you a little at a time and say, that's why things have not gone as expected. But God is no liar. If He had given you prophesies, they most definitely would have come to pass when He said and just as He said, but such is not the case.

I ask you; ...How are we supposed to be woke up if we can't see ANYTHING? What kind of wake up call is invisible?

You claim God told you the Thunders were going to happen.
You claim God told you the Tribulation was going to happen.
Where is the specific proof that you, Ron, said would come?
We are in day 53 of the alleged tribulation, yet the world is unaware of this. The world at large is unaware of Ron and Laura Weinland. The Bible tells us the two witnesses witness, but there has been no witnessing from Laura at all. Apparently she is one of the two witnesses in name only, and as far as you witnessing... not really witnessing at all...just damage control sermons. This doesn't resemble the Bible at all.

Did Moses go before Pharaoh, tell him what would happen, and then stand by and look like an fool because NOTHING happened like he said God had told him?
Of course not. Because God WAS talking to Moses.
When God said something would happen, IT HAPPENED!!
Yet... here we are... listening to you assuring people even though Nothing happened as you said GOD said it would.
Here you are, taking back EVERYTHING you CLAIMED in your book!
All the stuff that you said was SUPPOSED to PROVE to everyone that you are a PROPHET.

You say silly things like; the critics want to see a nuke as proof.
It's not ABOUT what anybody WANTS to see! Nobody wants to see nukes go off anywhere, it's about waiting for the proof you said would come, the proof of who you say you are. YOU are the one who made the claim about nukes. We didn't.

Are we a sinful people because we trust Deut. 18:22 & Rev. 2:2 and look for the proof or lack thereof?
Deut. 18:22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Rev. 2:2 "...I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."

Ron, you simply cannot claim to be a prophet of God and expect people to believe you without proof, and then pretend to put curses on those who have discovered you to be false.

You said there would be PROOF and THAT is what people want to see Ron.
But there is no proof. You dance and dodge and say ridiculous things such as we just want to see calamity, or that we are hating God by accusing you of being a false prophet! You say these ridiculous things because we call you on your words. Because we expect you to be true to your word.
You DID say you are true to your word...so, be true to your word.


YOU SAID SPECIFIC THINGS WOULD HAPPEN AND THEY... HAVEN'T ... HAPPENED! And there you stand telling everyone God has changed his mind. You said you would step down by Pentecost if there was no clear proof, and then you go back on your word despite the fact that you said you are true to your word.


SINCE WHEN DOES GOD SEND A PROPHET WITH A MESSAGE AND THEN NOT DELIVER?

You say the Tribulation didn't start the way we conjured up in our heads, but the only picture we had in our heads is the one you PUT there with your claims, spelled out in black and white in your book.

You tell us it's not what you thought. That's because you are not God's prophet.

You tell us you're not a fortune teller. No, you're not. But you have told us in your book the things that are to befall us in our future, as allegedly told to you by God.
And here is a neat little trick: ONLY THOSE WHO "GOD CALLS" AND "OPENS THERE EYES/MINDS" can "see." Well, as in the Emperor's New Clothes, no one is about to step forward and admit they can't see the 'fine new clothing he is wearing' and be declared a fool. No worry for the little children though, the small child is not concerned with others thinking him a fool, but speaks the truth; "The king is NAKED!"

Excuse me... but... how many prophets delivered GOD'S MESSAGE OF CHASTISEMENT, and then told the people that they're receiving an invisible punishment? That is the goofiest thing I've ever heard.

People... I can tell you right now, we will ALWAYS be waiting see the PROOFS THAT RON SAID WOULD COME, right Ron? The proof that YOU..ARE..WHO..YOU..SAY..YOU..ARE.

Well we've been waiting a long time.

The 6th seal came and went; that is - The 7 thunders came and went, or should I say NEVER came; keep in mind the alleged, first thunder was 9/11. The whole world new of it, and although the remaining thunders were to be be much more pronounced than the first... there has been nothing more pronounced than 9/11, has there? and the time of the thunders have gone. The beginning of the tribulation came and went, we are now, as of June 9th, in day 53. Day 45 of your "45 to 90 days" has come and gone, and NONE of your PROOFS have come. Pentecost has come and gone......


You simply cannot believe someone's claim to be a prophet of God without proof. That would not only be foolish, but dangerous as well.
How many chances will you give a man before you finally conclude that he has not been sent to you by God? How long will you continue to follow a man whose "prophesies" have not come to pass? How long will you permit a false teacher to stand between you and God? How much longer will you allow yourself to be led astray?
And, yes, if he is a false prophet , he is a false teacher meaning you have been led astray.

You must stop making the excuse that they are 'only human' or 'they're not perfect', because we ALL know that. We all know this of all God's servants. The difference is; The 'imperfect', 'only human' prophets that God chose, were actually His prophets. We know this because the things they told people that God had said actually happened. Are you really so willing to cling to Ron's message over that of God's? Are you really so sure that he is telling you the truth?

Let me ask you; If you were to treat this like college, and be tested, could you answer all the questions on the test? Do you know Ron's book, 2008 GFW, well enough to answer questions posed to you? Do you know it well enough to be aware of contradictions between what he says in his book and what he says in sermons? I can tell you right now; if you are not aware of any contradictions, you do not know his book. And making excuses for these contradictions is a dangerous and scary thing to do, especially since you have had no proof of his claims.

Don't be so easily fooled by claims of earthquakes or by disasters in countries that have nothing to do with the prophesies that Ron made, or by thinking that because the Pope hoped that the victims may find 'forgiveness' for the perpetrators, that he is being controlled by Satan. For crying out loud. Where is the scripture where Jesus said forgiveness of sins was a sin?! How are you so easily fooled? Did Jesus not say we cannot be forgiven our sins if we cannot forgive others of their sins against us? (Mt.6:14-15, Mk. 11:25). Jesus Himself was tortured to death, tortured to the point of being so disfigured beyond that of any man and His form marred beyond human likeness (Is. 52:14) He could count all His bones (Ps. 22:17) They pulled out His beard (Is. 50:6)... yet, what did He say? Forgive them Father, they don't know what they are doing. Was it evil to ask the Father to forgive the people who committed this heinous crime against His Son?

If a man is proven false, why would anyone choose to follow that organization? Why in the world would anyone want to continue on in the teachings of a false teacher? Would not everyone expect the entire organization to be dissolved? What does it matter that the one giving the sermons has changed? That is the only thing that will have changed. Why would you continue on in his house? Of course, you wouldn't, because you're too smart for that. Besides, you know you know we don't need a man to follow, because you know we follow Christ Jesus and you know that each believer makes up the church, and you know that Jesus said we would receive the Counselor who will teach us all things.

********

Mat. 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

WHAT COVENANT ARE WE BOUND TO?

MY COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS &/OR [BRACKETS]:

WHAT COVENANT ARE WE BOUND T0?

An Illustration From Marriage (NIV)

Rom. 7:1 Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?

2 For example, by law a married woman [THE CHURCH] is bound to her husband [PHYSICAL JESUS] as long as he is alive, but if her husband [PHYSICAL JESUS] dies, she is released from the [OLD COVENANT/PHYSICAL ] law of marriage.

3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband [physical Jesus] is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband [PHYSICAL JESUS] dies, she is released from that [O.C./PHYSICAL] law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man [SPIRIT JESUS].

4 So, my brothers, you also died to the [O.C.] law through the [PHYSICAL] body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead [SPIRIT JESUS], in order that we might bear fruit to God.

5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the [O.C.] law [the motions of sins, which were by the law (Authorized Version)] were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

THE OLD COVENANT REVEALED SIN:

Struggling With Sin

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

YET WE REALIZE, BY IT, WE BORE FRUIT FOR DEATH:

8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

WE KNOW THE O.C. WAS TEMPORARY, FADING AWAY:

2 Co. 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,

8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.

11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.

13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.

14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

WE KNOW IT'S PURPOSE WAS TO LEAD US TO CHRIST:

Gal.3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

WE KNOW WE CAN'T INHERIT THE KINGDOM UNDER THE O.C.

Hagar and Sarah

Gal. 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.

25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written:"Be glad, O barren woman [GENTILES - CHILDREN BY FAITH, who bears no children,break forth and cry aloud,you who have no labor pains;because more are the children of the desolate womanthan of her [ISRAEL] who has a husband [JESUS]."

28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."

31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

WE KNOW THAT BY KEEPING THE O.C., WE ALIENATE OURSELVES FROM CHRIST JESUS. BUT BY THE N.C. WE BEAR FRUIT TO GOD:

Freedom in Christ

Gal.5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Response To: Galatians; Holy Days or Pagan Days?

This comment, regarding the 5/12/08 post, was left early this morning, and because this is such an important issue, I'm posting their comment along with my response (Seeker Of Truth also left a response in the comments section of the original post):

Anonymous said...

Its all fine to go pointing to other parts of the book to say that Gal 4:9 is not talking about Pagan days, but you only have to look at the preceding verse to see otherwise...8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.Sorry, but I'm afraid it is talking about going back to observing pagan gods.As for living only under faith, how do we show our faith?James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

May 13, 2008 2:50 AM

My Response:

Gal 4:8 "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.

9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you."

(Quote; Jeremy Weaver doxoblogy.com)
Galatians 4:3, 9 “The elements refer both to pagan gods and their worship and the law. Paul compares the two in order to show the Galatians that when they had not formerly known the true God they were involved in a religion of works. Through faith, they had now come to know the true God and sought Him by grace. But now they were returning to a basic system of works salvation by allowing the Judaizers to turn them to the law.

Paul is talking about keeping days and season’s period, as if it will please God. Pagans kept days for their gods, and for a time Israel had the same requirement. God commanded Israel to do many things similar to the pagans; armies, kings, gave them rules for slavery, and detailed laws to cover everything. Legalism is a human invention, god gave man his own version of legalistic law to make a point, and to bring man to the only truly godly law which is Christ in you.

The entire context of Galatians is the law that; 1) had served its purpose, Gal 3:24 “So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ,” and

2) is no longer needed, 3:25 “we are no longer under the supervision of the law,” because Co l2:16…… a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” And this is certainly not referring to pagan days which could hardly have pertained to Jesus.

It’s clear that the Galatians are both familiar with the law, and are being pressured to keep it. Why would they be so familiar with a law they never kept? All one has to do is note the places Paul spoke at, and of who his audience consisted of, to gain a clue as to the likely background of the church in Galacia. Acts18:44 “Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.” The Greeks could only be converts to Judaism, or they wouldn’t have been there. The Jews were scattered, and more lived elsewhere than in Palestine. They kept their traditions and drew in local converts. In Acts Paul spoke at the synagogue at Pisidian Antioch 13:14-16; the synagogue in Iconium 13:42; the synagogue in Thessalonica 17:1-2; the synagogue in Berea 17:10-11; the synagogue in Athens 17:17 (which states God fearing Greeks were there along with the Jews); the synagogue in Corinth 18:1-4 (again, both Jews and Greeks in attendance).

The Jews were clearly living in every Greek city, and they and their local converts to Judaism were Paul’s usual soil in which to plant a new church. The Greeks would have been converted twice; from pagan beliefs they learned of the writings of the Old Testament that became a foundation for belief in He for whom they testified.

Acts3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.” This is speaking to both Jew and Greek. Some had once kept pagan days, others had not. And for both, keeping of a legalistic set of rules to try to please God, or a false god are equally an exercise in futility.

Faith by works

James 2:14 “ What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?” People see what this verse says and immediately;

1) get the cart before the horse. Eph2:10 ”For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”The question is; what comes first, good works or faith;

2) Default to the old covenant rules to define what those works should be. The New Covenant, like any contract spells out what is required.

The first step is; 1John 4:15 “If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.” The second step: Rom 8:9 “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.” The third step is Gal5:22 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.”

God does the work through you. He provides the faith, no less than he provides the mind by which you reason. God provides the natural affection by which any good is done without faith, but he provides what is so much greater in the fruits of his spirit which transcend the natural, which he originally provided. And the good works God does by his spirit through you is the proof of the faith God gives, he makes you a vessel of good works that brings glory to God. This is the reason you were born.

We Have Been Given A New Covenant/Contract!

"J" (Shadows Of WCG) fights fire with fire, in his post; "A Lasting Ordinance, For the Generations to come", leaving no room to deny; we are NOT commanded by God to observe Holy Days.

I hope you are beginning to understand that there is no "amplified" covenant, but there IS a NEW covenant/contract.

God' Law ...Some Points from jdposey

I thought this was worth reading. From jdposey; a member of AboveTopSecret.com:

Ronald Weinland Predict Large Attack On US & Opening of the Seventh Seal of Revelation
page 11

jdposey
posted on 12-1-2008 @ 08:09 AM

Originally posted by WeAreOne: "Hi all, tis only I again, It really staggers me when people try to say that we don’t have to obey Gods law anymore because people somehow have come to believe that Jesus did away with Gods law?? Matthew Chapter 5 and Verse 17 and on and on it goes, there are too many scriptures to post they tell us to obey Gods law; where have they got this idea?? Even Jesus himself observed Gods laws and annual holy days??"

jdposey: "Even Jesus himself observed God's laws and annual holy days??? You are not getting it, listen to what you said. "Even"...can you do better than Jesus? Can you do as well as Jesus? It took a while for Paul, but it finally clicked with him. Why do think Paul went to the trouble expounding himself in Romans 7:14-25. Why do you think God took the time to send Jesus, made of a woman (Flesh) and made under the Law? So everyone could go right on living under the law? All I have to say is this, I commend you, that you are able to observe every aspect of the law to the tee in its entirety, without any transgression. I have been where you are now, BUT now, I am content resting in the finished work of Christ, who lived the law perfectly, in every aspect of the shadows that the law contains and would rather trust in His righteousness which has been imputed to me. You see, when you realize that it is Christ who lives in you, the fulfillment of all that is righteous and perfect, no law, no person, not even the Devil himself can condemn you concerning anything, after all, I am dead, but Christ, it is He who dwells within and it is not my righteousness that is in question when I do fail, slip up and fall short of God's glory. How can anything or anyone condemn Jesus? What you are doing is taking the complete finished work of Jesus and saying it was not enough....now I will tag the law on to it. In essence, you are counting the death, the blood of Christ as having fallen short in its work and insulting God by saying or thinking that you can do more than what was necessary for God to send His son to address. The Law appeals to the flesh and I suppose, it will continue to do so. The very thing you are expounding, is the very thing Paul spent his time addressing."

What I would like to add, to what jdposey says here is, of course Jesus kept those Old Covenant laws. The O.C. was STILL in effect...He hadn't died on the cross yet. The New Covenant didn’t go into effect until His death, which is why He said, ‘It is finished.’
(JOH. 19: 30) When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Salvation was no longer our burden at that point, (Meaning, under the Old Covenant salvation is your responsibility in that you must keep it in it's entirety, perfectly, in order to be found righteous). He had paid our debt, died our death, freed us. (In short: Salvation is now a gift given by grace; we must accept the gift and we must love one another).
(GAL. 5: 1) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

I strongly suggest reading GAL. 4:8-31 and understand v.21-31. It's very clear what Paul is saying here; No one under the Old Covenant inherits the kingdom. And I am quite aware that many of you who practice Old Covenant ways think your practicing the New Covenant, but you are not!

I believe the reason so many have trouble with this is because you don't understand what a covenant is. It is a contract. Just because there may be similarities in two different covenants, doesn't mean one was modified. It merely means there are similarities.

Let me share with you, if I may, the example I gave someone recently freed from O.C. Maybe this will help you with the Herbert W Armstrong/Worldwide Church of God misinformation:
'Oh! Then it's okay to steal, and murder, and lie...?'
They say this, because they DON'T UNDERSTAND it either.

Let’s look first at the word covenant. What exactly is a covenant?

NOUN
A signed written agreement between two or more parties [nations] to perform some action- a formal agreement between countries, organizations, or people / A pact or binding agreement between two or more parties to engage in or refrain from something.
A formal agreement of legal validity, esp. one under seal, [Like lambs blood?]
(Bible) an agreement between God and his people in which God makes certain promises and requires certain behavior from them in return
VERB
Enter into a covenant or formal agreement
Quest Study Bible dictionary, page 174
A mutually binding agreement between two parties…

So, then a covenant is a contract. So what would a new agreement between parties mean? Example:
A homeowner, being a party of an agreement may say, “I’ve made a new contract. You will notice there are some similarities. In the old contract, you were responsible for the cost of repairs to the house. In the new contract, I am responsible for the cost of repairs to the house. As in the old contract, you must continue to do your best to not cause damage to the house.”
If the old contract was done away with, does it mean the renters can now be careless in the care of the house, unlike in the old contract? Of course not! That contract helped the renters to become aware of how to care properly for a home, even though they could never come up with the money for repairs. Therefore, the old contract was good. However, the new contract is better because the owner now graciously pays for repairs. All the renter has to do is accept the money from him by presenting him with the receipt. Of course, they will not get the money reimbursed if they do not give him the receipt.
In the same way, Jesus gave us a new contract. Of course, we are not to blatantly sin ROM. 6:15. The old contract made us aware of sin, ROM. 3:20, 7:7 so it was good! However, in the new contract, we are no longer responsible for our own salvation. Jesus died on the cross to pay that debt for us! In other words, The Owner has said he would cover the cost of home repairs.

You see, there are similarities, but the two contracts are very different!
Under the first contract, we were responsible for our salvation because it is up to us to us to keep every single aspect of it, flawlessly! It was also an external law! It was all about going through motions, regardless of what was really going on in the heart.
Remember Jesus talking to the Pharisees about cleaning the outside but being full of dead mens bones and everything unclean inside?
But the N.C. is an internal law! It's not about going through motions, rather what's going on in our mind/heart. Because, it's what's there that makes us who we really are.

Why was the Old Covenant law given in the first place? Because the Israelites were so rebellious. Everyone clings so tightly to the 10 commandments. But people, those are only 10 examples of how to love. How many other atrocities can humans act upon others that aren't even listed in the 10? I can think of a few horrendous ones!
External. Internal.

Another example:
Sixteen year old Lisa is always coming home at 2 or 3 A.M. Seventeen year old Terry is always coming home around 8 P.M.Mom and Dad sit down with Lisa and tell her she now has a 7 P.M. curfew to follow or she will suffer the consequences. She wants to know, 'why doesn't Terry have to be home by 7 too?' Her parents reply, 'Because Terry always comes home at a decent hour without having to be told to do so.'
Why would these parents make Terry subject to this external law (curfew) when she has an internal law (comes home around 8 PM without being told to do so)?

One more thing. Some of you say that the mark of God's people is the keeping of the Sabbath. Again, that was true under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant God's people are known because they love one another.
John 13:34-35