Is It A Sacrifice For God To Become Human & Die For Us?

Is Jesus self-existent? Did He take on human form?

Was He created? Did He become God?

If He is self-existent, what kind of sacrifice is it for God to come down here & pay the penalty for our sins? He knew He would be dead only three days & nights and be resurrected. Anyway, God can't die, right?

Let's examine this.

Before we begin, let's first pause to think about sacrifice. Sacrifice is giving up something that is painful to give up. The more you give up the bigger the sacrifice and all the more painful. If it's not painful, then it's not a sacrifice, it is simply giving.

We'll start by assuming Jesus was created, had a beginning;

What is the sacrifice?

ALL HUMANS DIE

How is it a sacrifice for a created Jesus to die? He knows He'll be resurrected.

A sacrifice is about something painful to give up. How much does a created Jesus give up? What is He giving up? All humans die.

Well, let's see... He was put in the womb of a virgin by God. This is His beginning, this created God. When did He become God? In the womb? After He was born? Perhaps at a certain age? Is He human or is He God? Is He both?

He was created in a human body. He was created to become God. He was created to die for our sins. To suffer and be tested like all humans. He had to overcome, He had to be perfect.

He wasn't giving up a 'normal' life; planning a future, having a family. His life was predetermined. So what did He sacrifice? What did He give up? His human life. He relinquished His life.

Now let's assume He is self-existent;

What is the sacrifice?

HE'LL JUST BE RESURRECTED

How is it a sacrifice for God to take human form and die? He knows He'll be resurrected.

A sacrifice is about something painful to give up. How much does God give up? What is He giving up?

He is an eternal, self-existent being who came down from heaven, giving up His glorious body for a flesh body... a body that sweats, pees, poops, must be fed and bathed and wears common clothing. (Can you imagine the President of the United States washing your feet? How much further to descend in humility, for God to take human form for thirty plus years, than for the President to wash your feet?)

Jesus/God was put in a body that feels. God felt every lashing. God was tortured. God's flesh was ripped from his body, His bones were showing. He was so marred, He was beyond human likeness.

So, whether Jesus was created or self-existent, in each case the pain and suffering of torture is felt.

WHAT IS THE SACRIFICE?

So, again;

What does a created Jesus give up, how much does a created Jesus give up? Quite a bit. He will be tortured to death, but be raised three days later, and soon join the Father in heaven.

What does a self-existent Jesus give up, how much does a self-existent Jesus give up? Quite a bit. He will leave His home in heaven to get down in the trenches with us, leave His glorious body behind, inhabit a human body that pees and poops, and be tortured to death, and soon return to the Father in heaven.

WHO IS MAKING THE SACRIFICE?

Let's look at three arguments for a created Jesus;

1) If God comes down and dies for our sins. How's that a sacrifice? He knows He's going to be resurrected three days later.

Whether He had always been God, or whether He became God, it is still God who makes the sacrifice. It is still God who pays the debt. Whether created or self-existent, He knows He will be resurrected three days later, He knows that he will be joining or re-joining the Father in heaven in a few days, so how is it any more of a sacrifice for a created Jesus than it is for a self-existent Jesus? God, or human; He knows He'll be resurrected.

THE OTHER TWO ARGUMENTS

You see? In either case it is God who sacrifices, who dies to pay the debt for our sins.

2) God can't die.

Remember: the body dies (a temporary death~or sleep, as I've pointed out in previous posts), the spirit returns to the Father. The spirit only dies if sent to the pit (an eternal/permanent death).

3) How can He inherit what is already His?

First, why would you assume it's already His?

Second, the Bible tells us that Yahweh inherits. (Remember: Ron teaches that only the Father is Yahweh).

See the dilemma? It's a backfiring argument. It only requires logic and common sense. But, in case you don't see the dilemma; It's a backfiring argument because if only the Father is Yahweh, and if the Bible says Yahweh inherits, then you can't use as an argument for Jesus being created: "How can He inherit what is already His?" Still don't get it? If the Father can inherit, then Jesus can inherit. Now do you get it?

Here is the problem with Jesus being created - the problem with a God being created to die for our sins;

Is. 43:10 tells us no Gods have been or ever will be created, meaning;

1) Jesus was not created and,

2) You will not become Gods.

WHICH IS GREATEST?

Now we come to this question; Which is the greater sacrifice? Who gives up the most? It's quite clear who gives up the most; An eternal, self-existent God.

Are you trampling under foot the Son of God?

Yet an other of Ron's arguments that do not hold water.

Again, I ask you members; are you capable of proving me wrong?

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It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Ron,

Just a few things:

Flowery, syrupy love. Yes, how fake. Apparently love should be sober and formal. Sounds so... warm and loving. But then that makes sense coming from a man who admittedly has to work at showing affection.

You're always going on about Elohim insinuating it means family/God family. Show me proof. You won't find it. You say Jesus' name is Jesus Christ. No, Christ is one of His titles, just as is Yahweh and Rock and Savior, et al. You also say that you will be gods... um, no. Only the Father and the Son are God. Again, God said there was no God created before Him, nor will there be one created after.... we were created... which is also proof that Jesus did not have a beginning.

Last week you went on about Mother Teresa, how people are selfish, there's nothing good in anyone... she was not of God.

So based on this reasoning not a single person is of God... and Ron, you are no exception.

You seem to have a habit of making arguments that don't hold water.

Like "How can He inherit what's already His? The Bible says Yahweh inherits, which I talk about in "Did Jesus Have A Beginning? RePost. Anyone who studies and researches scripture should know that.

You go on about people who who say they have new truth and how haughty they are about what they saw and believed. Well, you tell me; how are you any different? Where is your proof that you have the truth?

I have proof that you are a false teacher, a false prophet leading people away from Jesus. So easily proved. So easily it's laughable.

PKG is your church, yes yours, it's not God's, you don't teach what the Bible says. You teach twisted lies. You pervert the word of God.

Members,

Maybe it's just not your time yet.

You need to understand; Unless you wake up and repent (before the return of Jesus/or the death of your physical body - which ever comes first), I believe you will not be the Bride of Christ. I believe that once you realize the truth, you will accept it and thus be in the kingdom... but not as the Bride. I want you to be part of the Bride of Christ. I want that for you. How could I not?

 Members, can you prove me wrong? Go back and read the Yahweh article (the quickest, easiest one to investigate) then comment or e-mail me the proof that those scriptures don't prove Jesus did not have a beginning, that Jesus is not Yahweh too. Define what those scriptures actually mean, if you don't agree with me. If that particular teaching of Ron's is wrong, what else is?

If I was working on a math problem and got it wrong, how would you show me the actual solution? You wouldn't just say "that's wrong" or "I don't see it that way," you'd go through the steps to show me the solution to the problem, (unless, of course you didn't care).

So Ron was talking about the cesspools on the internet; do you think my blog is a cesspool? Do you think your going to grow sick spiritually because you "dig though the garbage" on my blog? Because you "swim" in my so-called "icky tank?" "eww." Ron says some of the stuff on the internet almost got to him and he had to battle it. I find that interesting. Sounds like he almost saw the truth of God, but sadly, Satan was able to keep his hold on him. 

Well, I ask you, where are my lies. Show me proof.

Let me ask you this; how is Ron any different than me? Where is the proof that he has the truth?

Don't believe his lies and his tricky, crafty words. Tell me how he is any different. Show me the proof. This blog shows proof that he does not have the truth. As RW likes to say: anyone with the eyes to see will see. Anyone called of God will see it is the truth. Unless your being called, you're just not going to see it.

You can't be one with God when you've been cut off, alienated from Jesus.

The unity and oneness you have, this family that Ron talks about, is not with God, it's with Ron. Ron is not of God. He teaches a different Gospel and a different Jesus.

Ron, It's interesting... are you telling your congregation it's okay to keep FOT in their homes? Because, you said they cannot possibly grow spiritually at home, just them and the Father and Jesus. I guess it's okay since you can teach them with your sermons. You sure have a lot of holes in your teachings. You contradict yourself repeatedly. I was wondering; will they be keeping the entire Feast, or just a few days? You know, with the huge deal you make about Pentecost and which day it should start on, and the importance of Sabbaths. But I suppose it would be okay, if you give them permission. Then it won't be counted as a sin for breaking Gods very specific rules for keeping annual Sabbaths. Wow, they are so lucky to have you... the special 'called one'... whose every prophesy failed.

(By the way members, for those of you who lost your jobs last FOT, or who will lose them this time, or lose them again - let me give you something to ponder; God is love, God is love, God is love... and He expects you to prove it by losing your jobs and struggling financially? God is love, God is love, God is love.)

Then you go on about Jn. 14:10-19 and obeying Jesus' commands - like the Old Covenant Ten Commandments were the only commands ever given by God! Jesus said obey my commands, but you say Jesus was not the God of the Old Testament, yet you talk like Jesus is talking about the commands given at Sinai, which makes them the Fathers commands, not Jesus'.

You mock those who say they have loved God their whole life. You say they have not and they have a lot to learn, (you know, not 'keeping God's law & all). Well, as you know, everyone sins. Does it mean you, Ron, really did not love God before He allegedly revealed "truths" to you? Do you have a true blue tried and tested method to find out if someone has the 'truth' and thus, 'loves' God? Get over yourself. You are so self-righteous.

Tell me, how can you, Ron, know God if you can't admit the truth of Jer. 23:5-6 and Is. 48:12-13, 16. Is it because one of the most difficult things people face, is that their belief might be wrong, to acknowledge it and accept the truth - God's truth?

This is what those verses say;

Jer. 23:5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal). [In this case, the Father], "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King [Jesus] who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) Our Righteousness.

[Who is the righteous branch? Jesus is. What will he be called? Yahweh Our righteousness. Which Yahweh? The Son.]

Is. 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

[The speaker identifies himself as the First and the Last, and then goes on to say;]

13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.

[Here, this speaker says he laid the foundations of the earth and spread out the heavens. Who is this speaker, aside from the creator and the First and the Last? He identifies himself further in the following verse;]

16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) [In this case, the Father] has sent me, with his Spirit.

[He says the Sovereign Yahweh sent him, meaning; the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth, and spread out the heavens, the One who identified himself as the First and the Last.]

[More simply put; Jesus says the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth. Jesus is the creator. Jesus is Yahweh. The Father is Yahweh.]

Jesus said He came to reveal the Father. Interesting. What's to reveal? He's the God they've always known, isn't He? After all, according to you, Jesus didn't exist then.

It's amazing how what you "know," is 'from God', but not what I or anyone else knows. Everyone proclaims they have the truth - what makes you ANY different from them? Where is your proof? You don't have it. You know full well Ron, that when your first set of prophesies failed, that it was proof that God was not working with you, because God is not a liar. Can you tell us which of God's prophets He made look like a false prophet because what was proclaimed did not come to pass? You can't because God said when that happens, they are prophesies that did not come from Him.

Ron, you have told the congregation to go back to all the 'truths' God has given your church. Well, you need to tell them to go to their Bibles and 'truly' study, because they clearly don't. You and I both know that if they did, you'd be penniless. You must be pretty scared. How would you pay the taxes on your house? Yikes. Pretty clever how you came up with the plan and got a big chunk of their second tithe. Things are pretty tight with people dropping out, huh? Have you been investing or...? What's the plan for your financial stability when your second set of dates fall through?

************

It is important that you understand; Everything on this blog is based on my current understanding. Never take anyone's word for it, always prove it for yourself, it is your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom.

Ron Weinland Stands Between You & God

I wanted to go over some great points made by jdposey from the Below Top Secret forum, in his/her Deceitful Conspiracy of Ronald Weinland post, and follow with some comments of my own. Underlined & Bolded emphasis in RED, mine;

Topic started on 27-2-2008 @ 12:02 PM by jdposey

Content from external source: For that matter, none of the Book of Revelation was written so that just anyone reading it could understand. It has to be revealed through God’s servants, and most of it was reserved to be revealed at this end-time through God’s end-time prophet— me. (Ronald Weinland: 2008 God’s Final Witness, Page-87)

Content from external source: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophesy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:3) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.(Revelation 22:7)

JDPOSEY: Here again, is Mr. Weinland thinking more of himself than he should, or, do we take note of his previous statement regarding boldness, confidence and clarity and hand complete authority over to him, assuming we are hopeless and without capability of understanding the contents regarding the Book of Revelation? Given the scriptural references above, “Blessed is he that readeth” and “Blessed is he that keepeth,” the two scriptures mention nothing in regard to Mr. Weinland’s statement that the Book of Revelation was written in such a way that not just anyone could understand it.The only obvious handicap would be to those who refuse to “hear the words.” Like V3 of Revelation 1 states, “Blessed is the one who reads, hears, and keeps. If that were not possible, like Mr. Weinland wants to lead his readers to believe, then I believe we would find that indicated in the Book of Revelation. Not to mention, we would also find the verse which advises us to “wait for the appointed one,” after all Mr. Weinland states: and most of it (Book of Revelation) was reserved to be revealed at this end-time through God’s end-time prophet— me.

SEEKERS COMMENT: So let's understand this; No one REALLY knows what the Bible means, but Ron DOES! Hmm, how fortunate for people. *Sarcastically*; You know - since God only works with prophets, and doesn't provide us with the Counselor, the Holy Spirit! *KNOCK KNOCK* HELLO!* Is God a liar? Then why do you act like the ripped curtain has been put back up? Why would you think that the HOLY SPIRIT is not CAPABLE of causing you to grow spiritually when you study at home, just you, GOD & JESUS?! Because Ron SAID SO? Is he God? Then why do you allow him to STAND BETWEEN YOU AND GOD? I'd be willing to bet you don't even remember him saying this, do you?

posted on 27-2-2008 @ 12:11 PM by jdposey

Content from external source: The First Thunder is the beginning terror of war The Second Thunder is the increasing destruction generated by earthquakes. The Third Thunder is the growing destructiveness from weather. The Fourth Thunder is global economic upheaval The Fifth Thunder is death The Sixth Thunder is the growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses. That revelation is that I am the spokesman of God’s two end-time prophets. The Seventh Thunder is the accelerated revelation of God to man.

JDPOSEY: Are we to believe that the very signs which Jesus spoke almost 2000 years ago concerning his return and the end of the age (end-time) have now become something NEW because Mr. Weinland chose to squeeze them into the sealed seven thunders, somewhat revamping them? Even his mentor, Herbert W. Armstrong was not as bold as Mr. Weinland. At least he had some reservation in his self deception. Mr. Weinland has loosed the boundaries of deception, exceeding any fallacies that Mr. Armstrong might have incurred.
If you follow Mr. Weinland’s thinking process regarding the Seven Thunders being the very signs which Jesus gave to his disciples, and then try to compare that thinking to Revelation 10:4 where John is advised to seal and not write these Seven thunders down, then you have to ask yourself, better yet, ask Mr. Weinland, “If these thunders are no more than the signs which Jesus gave to his disciples, and were evident even to John, who personally heard these signs spoken by Jesus, don’t you believe there would have been no need for John to seal them, if they were something already known by John and many others? The fact is, the Seven Thunders have nothing to do with the signs which Jesus gave to His disciples, and for Mr. Weinland to lead people astray in thinking they are, not only is he responsible for his own deception but also for deceiving his readers.

SEEKERS COMMENT: This is a very logical and legitimate point, and COG-PKG members should be asking this very question! WHY would John be told to seal up the thunders if all they consisted of, were the VERY signs that Jesus gave to His disciples? Amplified or not.

Content from an external source: If you believe anything about God other than what is written in this book, then you do not know the true God of Abraham... This book reveals God’s plan and purpose being worked out on this earth, and therefore, it reveals the true God!...Time is not on your side any longer. You have before you true life and death decisions that must be made quickly if you have any hope of sharing in that new age. (Ronald Weinland: 2008 God’s Final Witness, pages 243, 244)

JDPOSEY: Look at the dilemma Mr. Weinland leaves his readers in! They have ONLY two choices. One, if you believe anything other than what is written in his book, then you do not know God. Second, (FEAR) Time is running out, life and death decision must be made NOW. Let me sum up what Mr. Weinland is saying: Time is of the essence, unless you accept that I am one of the Two Witnesses, receive everything I have written in this book, by way of Church of God-PKG doctrinal teaching and the fearful warning as I have laid out, there is no hope for you, you will be lost!

SEEKERS COMMENT: Wow! What a pair! What a big pair, to say that we should believe nothing about God other than what is written in his book! No thanks! I'm sticking with God's Book! I'm not falling for that deception! The Bible already warned me about people like this - and I paid attention. The Bible tells us that if we know God's Word, we can't be tricked.

So, yeah, I DO believe things about God other than what is written in Ron's book. In fact, what I believe, I got from THE Book; The Bible!

It is ALSO interesting that, according to Ron's statement, the only way to know the TRUE God of Abraham, is to read RON'S book! Ron's! - No, not GOD'S book - but RON'S! So, we don't know God, because what we believe, we got from the Bible & NOT from Ron's book! I say again; what a pair!

The BIBLE is THE BOOK that reveals God's plan and purpose being worked out on the earth!

Ron's book has become like the Book of Mormon! Ron's book, like the Book of Mormon, supercedes the Bible. Yes, the Bible has become secondary. And, by the way, so has God, because according to Ron; we can't study at home, 'just me and God and Jesus' and somehow grow spiritually. Spiritual growth can only be accomplished through listening to Ron! Of course! How else can he gain and maintain control? He knows he will lose anyone who knows their Bible.

"I am not duped!" Let me ask you this; How can you be duped if you know you're duped? If someone has been duped - obviously - they do not know it! Do you think duped people know they're duped? Of course not, that's practically an oxymoron; the duped saying they're not duped. Would you expect someone to say; "I'm being duped."? You can't be duped and know it, otherwise, you're not being duped. See the dilemma?

Why would you continue following Ron, when he's had to create a BRAND NEW timeline because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HE SAID, HAS ACTUALLY OCCURED! You wouldn't.

Remember how some of you said you could see that we're in the Tribulation, you saw it because you had the eyes to see, because you must have the Holy Spirit to see, to know? What happened to that Tribulation? Well, Ron said, oops, don't worry I'll fix it, I'll just create a new timeline and hope something happens in 2008 or this is really going look bad, after all it IS the name of my book!

Everything in his FIRST time line has passed now. Day 90 of his 45 to 90 days was yesterday; July 16th. Since the 7 Thunders were to have all sounded. As the blogs pointed out from the beginning; Ron Weinland is a false prophet. We told you that the ONLY so-called "thunder" anyone was AWARE of, was the event that had already taken place when Ron began his books; 9/11, which he claimed to be the 1ST Thunder. Of course EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT 9/11 IS. But WHAT OF THE OTHER 6? Nothing. Why? Ask yourself. The entire world was glued to their televisions on 9/11. Was the entire world glued to them for the other 6 which were to INCREASE IN INTENSITY? No. They were not. They never happened, just as the blogs said from the start, despite the fact that some of you could see that we were in the Tribulation that Ron later said did not happen after all.

How many times does he have to change his story (timeline) before the lights come on? Will you stick with him after 2008 has passed and the title of his book is outdated, I mean; it would mean God gave him the wrong year and thus the wrong title for his book? Which do you choose? Truth, or fiction? If your eye is on the goal, you can only want one thing; TRUTH. No other road leads to the Kingdom of God.

I could make some "prophesies" and keep changing the date (as all false prophets have done) until something similar to my prediction finally happened and then say; "See? I was telling you the truth!" The problem is; When God says something will happen, it will happen just as He said. If the date I gave rolled around and nothing happened - walk away, because it was not of God!

COG-PKG members, do you REALLY, NOT see a problem here? I can only conclude that you do not put any time or effort into researching what Ron calls truth!! Because, if you did, you'd see right through his deceit. You CANNOT ride somebody's coat-tail into the kingdom of God! It is YOUR responsibility to verify what is and isn't TRUTH! You can't just pull a chair up to the desk or table on Saturday, take notes about what Ron says, then close your Bible and notebook and walk away!!! It just DOES NOT work that way! You MUST research these so-called "truths" of Ron's, as the noble Bereans did, BEYOND the scriptures Ron gives you! If you did that, you'd have a shocking revelation, because you'd be surprised to see just how EASY it is to prove Ron a FALSE teacher, let alone, prophet! All it takes is effort. You're not following God, you're following Ron; a man.

God wants to know "who is he who will DEVOTE himself to be CLOSE to me?" Jer. 30:21. You can't devote yourself to God, if you have devoted yourself to following Ron!

1Co. 1:12 "...One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas (Peter)"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you..., 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name... 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Which Ron has done by;

• denouncing WHO Christ Jesus IS! Claiming that He was CREATED!!! And by;
• teaching Old Covenant - which alienates you from Jesus, making Him of no use to you; Gal. 5:2 "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised [reliance on Old Covenant], Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

I can only wonder if;

1) You haven't REALLY read his book, or

2) You didn't understand what Ron was saying in his book, or

3) You've never really dug into your Bible before, so you just can't tell what's truth and what's not, or

4) You are, regrettably, not following the example of the Bereans, or

5) Perhaps, because you've studied your Bible some time in your past, you don't feel it's necessary to do so your entire life, or
6) Maybe you don't have the time or energy - that could be quite costly in the end, or

7) a combination of any of the above.

You've been robbed of WHO JESUS IS! - How amazing for God to give up His Deity to take on the lowly, disgusting form of a human, imagine. To feel the physical pain of torture, for us...His creation. His VERY unworthy, selfish, greedy, mean, spiteful, stealing, murdering, warring, nasty, nasty creation. It's not like He gave up His Deity to come down and save some noble, righteous people...but to save a people who aren't worthy to exist.

I am bewildered and concerned for you all.

You can no longer allow a man to stand between you and God. You've put your trust in Ron, so of what value is the Holy Spirit? Ron says you cant grow spiritually at home, just you and God and Jesus. He tells you that you must rely on him, and this, you have done. When do you begin relying on God Himself? I pray God will soon lead you to His Truth and away from Ron's lies.

Is There Love in Armstronism?

Armstrongite: anyone who follows the teachings of Armstrong (Ron Weinland teaches Armstronism).

For those of you who live with an Armstronite; How is that for you? Are you lucky? Is that person kind, loving, compassionate, forgiving, understanding, gentle, sweet, patient, do you love being around them? Do they make you want what they have?
Or do you feel sad, stressed, worried, concerned, scared or fearful, isolated and alone, like an outsider, angry, unloved, un-special, un-called of God?

2008 GFW, p.18
"...for Almighty God is a God of love. He is compassionate and full of mercy toward those who seek His ways. All other ways cause suffering, pain and oppression in life."

I agree, God is a God of love, but that's not the God Armstrongism dished out.The ACoG's cause the suffering, pain and oppression in life. Because the harshness of the Old Covenant creates harsh people.
Hopefully, you are a lucky one, and live with a wonderful Armstrongite who brings joy to your life. I hope so.

Ron Weinland; The Wolf In Sheeps Clothing

Let the reader understand;

De. 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

[It's a good thing the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant.] How ever this only concerns the first death, there's no escaping the second and final death.]

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?"

[How can we know?]

22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

[How many times must this scripture be said? Nothing Ron "prophesied" came to pass!]

Is. 44: 24 "This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, 25 who foils the signs of false prophets...

[Ron's 'prophesies' have been quite foiled.]

Mt.23: 13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

[Do you see the implications here?]

15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

[Do you see the implications here, too?]

16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'

17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?

18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'

19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.

21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.

22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

[Example; "...swears by the Temple means nothing"; Ron says you can't grow spiritually at home, just you and God.

Example; "...swears by the gold...is bound by his oath."; Ron says you can only grow spiritually through him. Whoa! A bit arrogant. Scary.]

Example; "...You blind fools! Which is greater; the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?" So; You blind fools! Which is greater; Ron's ministry, or God who makes us righteous? Ron is a false teacher/prophet condemned to destruction. In any case, God is greater than His true ministers, whom He makes righteous.]

2 Pe. 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

[Ron has done just that; introduced the destructive heresy of denying Jesus as Yahweh, the Eternal, Self-Existent, by teaching that He had a beginning. An easy lie to see through. Destructive because, by believing this, you are not of God; 1 Jn. 4:2.]

2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

[Many have followed Ron's shameful ways.]

3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

[Ron's greed for power, self-importance, and your money, lots of your money. His condemnation has long been hanging over him.]

Mt. 7: 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

[Ron has come to you, pretending to be a man of God, but he is not. He is leading people away from Christ. Do you understand the seriousness of this? ]

16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

[Ron teaches a different Christ! That is not fruit from God's tree, it is fruit from the Devil's tree].

17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

[Teaching a different Christ is bad fruit from a bad tree.]

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

[Someone who belongs to God, does not teach a different Christ.]

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

[Sadly, this is the destination laid out in front of Ron.]

20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

[Yes, his fruit is recognized. It is quite easy to see that a man who teaches that Christ did not come in the flesh is not a man of God; 1 Jn.4:1-2 ]

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

[Who is the Rock? Jesus, not Ron, who teaches a different Jesus.]

25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

[Because they built their faith on Christ, not a man.]

26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

[He who builds his faith in one who is not Christ, or even of Christ, but a false teacher.]

27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

[It fell with a great crash.]

2 Pe. 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[Yeah, like this distortion of Ron's; 'Christ coming in the flesh doesn't mean He came down from heaven and became flesh, it means He comes and dwells in our flesh.' What a lie!]

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

[already know...be on your guard... carried away...error of lawless men...fall...]

18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

[Grow in the knowledge of Jesus! How's that add go? ...'No one wants to look foolish.']

1 Jn. 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[TEST people to see whether they are from God!

2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

[Ron does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. No! He denies it! SOMETHING SO EASILY REFUTED! YES, EASILY, AND IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES. THAT'S ALL IT TAKES. NO LONG HOURS OF RESEARCH OR STUDY, JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES. It takes some time investment to go over the "Did Jesus Have A Beginning" article, but only a couple of minutes to go over the "Who Is Yahweh" article. Even without my article, you could do it yourself with a concordance in between ten to twenty minutes!]

3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

[Yeah, you guessed it; Ron is anti-Christ. Ron teaches that a God was created! Wouldn't want to be in his shoes.]

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.

6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

[So, if you are from God, then listen to God, because whoever is not from God does not listen to God. Frankly, you are listening to Ron, a falser teacher/false prophet, and are not listening to God. Maybe Ron scares you with his prophesies, or maybe he makes you feel hopeful...it doesn't matter, it is your responsibility to verify the truth. You cannot do that if you limit yourself to the scriptures he gives you with his sorry, faulty exegesis, and say to yourself; "Hmm, sounds reasonable." Find out if it is true by looking up your own scriptures! It's your responsibility. You cannot ride someone else's coattail into the Kingdom!]

2 Co. 11:2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.

3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

[Didn't Satan sound so reasonable, telling Eve she wouldn't die? Sounded reasonable to her, and, whoa; she didn't die! But then, that's not the death that was in question, it was the permanent death, the death of the spirit, the soul, but then, Satan knew that when he conned her. What did that cost?]

4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough...

...12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing [loving you] in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

[And what a boastful man you are Ron. Myyy goodness.]

13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

[Fortunately, most of us see right through you Ron.]

14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

[Yes, no wonder.]

15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

[No, it is not surprising that you masquerade as a servant of righteousness, and you end will be what your actions deserve, Ron.]

Who Is Yahweh?

Let's talk about 'Yahweh...LORD.'

As you well know, Ron tells us that '(all caps) LORD' means Yahweh. If you look at the Strong's number in your concordance for the word LORD, you will see it is H3068, which you can then look up in the Greek Hebrew Dictionary to see, it indeed, says Yahweh, spelled in Hebrew as; Yowd Hey Vav He (sounds like; yode hay vawv hay, and is read from right to left), and is defined as; self-Existent or Eternal.

Now let me ask you; what does that mean, to be self-existent? It means; having no beginning. It means not created. It means no beginning and no end. Any arguments?

Okay. Let's look at scriptures about 'Yahweh; the Self-Existent, Eternal.' Lets find out who this is. Is it the Father? Is it Jesus? Is it both the Father and the Son?

I have listed some here for your convenience, but you can find a lot more by looking '(all caps) LORD' up in your concordance and see how many times the word is used and where it is used.

************

Is. 26:4 Trust in the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
[Who is the Rock, Cornerstone? Jesus.]

Is. 26:21 See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer.
[Who comes to punish the people? Not the Father, but Jesus.]

Is. 27:12 In that day the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one.

13 And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.
[Who is it who comes to do the threshing? Jesus does. Who will be worshiped on the holy mountain in Jerusalem in that day when the great trumpet sounds? Jesus.]

Is. 29:6 the LORD Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire.
[Again, Who comes? Not the Father. Jesus does, Yahweh.]

Ho.2:16 "In that day," declares the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal), "you will call me 'my husband'; you will no longer call me 'my master.' [This is Yahweh, an existing God (I say this because Ron says only the Father existed at this time), who is called 'master' & he is saying that the day is coming when he will be called 'husband.' Who is the husband? Jesus, Yahweh.]

18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.

19 I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice, in love and compassion. [Who is the groom? Who does the bride marry? Jesus, not the Father!]

20 I will betroth you in faithfulness, and you will acknowledge the LORD.

Ho. 13:4 "But I am the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior except me. [Who is the Savior? Jesus is.]

5 I cared for you in the desert, in the land of burning heat. [So, this Yahweh, Jesus was with them in the desert, like 1Co. 10:4 says, yet Ron denies.]

Joel 2: 11 The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? [Who thunders at the head of his army? Jesus does.]

Joel 3:1 In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

...8 The LORD has spoken. [Who brings them to Jehoshaphat and enters into judgment against them? Jesus does, Yahweh. And in the following verse Jesus tells us who does the judging.]

Jn. 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, [So, again, we see that Jesus does the judging and that the speaker is (Joel 3:8) Yahweh/Jesus.]

Jer. 23:5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal). [In this case, the Father], "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) Our Righteousness.

[Who is the righteous branch? Jesus is. What will he be called? Yahweh Our righteousness. Which Yahweh? The Son.]

Jn. 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father.
[Here, Jesus speaks of RETURNING.]

He. 1:2 ...his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. [Here we are told the Son made the universe.]

Re. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. [Who is coming? Jesus is.]

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. [Jesus says here, he is the Alpha & the Omega, the First & the Last. What does that mean to be the Alpha & the Omega?]

16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. [Off subject but, interesting; the water of life is a free gift.]

Ps. 96:13 they will sing before the LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal), for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his truth. [Who judges? Jesus does. Who does this say comes? Yahweh, Jesus.]

Is. 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. [The speaker identifies himself as the First and the Last, and then goes on to say;]

13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together. [Here, this speaker says he laid the foundations of the earth and spread out the heavens. Who is this speaker, aside from the creator and the First and the Last? He identifies himself further in the following verse;]

16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign LORD (Yahweh, the self-existent, eternal) [In this case, the Father] has sent me, with his Spirit. [He says the Sovereign Yahweh sent him, meaning; the Sovereign Yahweh sent the individual who laid the foundations of the earth, and spread out the heavens, the One who identified himself as the First and the Last.]


This is an unshakable case for Jesus also being Yahweh, and not just the Father.
It is true; Jesus is Self-Existent, Eternal. He did not have a beginning. He was not created. Remember the scripture I gave you in the previous post "Did Jesus Have A Beginning?"

Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, [Yahweh (H3068 Eternal, Self-Existent] "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. So.... If Jesus had a beginning... a God WAS formed!

Again, this is an unshakable case for Jesus also being Yahweh, and not just the Father. It is true; Jesus is Self-Existent, Eternal. He did not have a beginning. He was not created.

Do you believe your Bible? What are you afraid of?